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Old 04-16-2020 | 10:55 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Itsajob
They can run a displacement and start training prior to October. I probably won’t get furloughed again, but I expect to be in school for the 737 or 320 before the we start furloughing pilots this fall. Unless big things happen to demand, they will have some time to start putting the pieces in place. I agree that we are potentially looking at a big number. I just hope that demand recovers before we get there.

the only problem is that right now there is a massive amount of Landings classes being run right now do to the lack of flying. So unles the company chooses to let pilots go non current for landings there isn’t any sim slots.

for example May on the 787 has every single session booked for the entire month with CQ and Landings. There are 3-4 Qual course that need 3-5 sims to finish and a half dozen diff courses as well that need a few more sims to finish. Also it appears atleast for May and June one 4 hour slot a day in every single sim will be blocked for disinfecting.

bottom line is we will need to rob Peter to pay Paul if displacement training needs to start. Before Oct 1

In all fairness not every fleet is as heavily scheduled as the 787 but there certainly isn’t any sims sitting Idle either. Also keep in mind that a lot of 737 instructors fall in the furlough range......that certainly won’t help with training loads either.
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Old 04-16-2020 | 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruff226
Here are your EXACT words, where did I misquote you.
Where do you arrive at “LIKELY” from the sources we both posted.

it’s right in the article:

“Under emergency use, the vaccine could be available to some people and health care workers in the fall of 2020.”
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Old 04-16-2020 | 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

the other variable is no one ever knows how. A pilot will bid. A 787 pilot May have 1000 hours as a 737 FO but they may elect to go the the 756 or the A320 triggering a full Qual.

you make it sound so simple but unless you take the time to show me your numbers I’m going to stick with the thought that is hard.
You're still not getting it. If you take a look at the seniority in each fleet you can see a seniority number that they could target which would severely reduce the displacement options for those that get displaced. IOW they can target a number that leaves the same fleet but different domicile as the only option (no training).

The RQ1,2,3 and 1000 hour stuff has no relevance.
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Old 04-16-2020 | 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 89Pistons
You're still not getting it. If you take a look at the seniority in each fleet you can see a seniority number that they could target which would severely reduce the displacement options for those that get displaced. IOW they can target a number that leaves the same fleet but different domicile as the only option (no training).

The RQ1,2,3 and 1000 hour stuff has no relevance.

I guess I don’t understand what you are saying. I get that if you pick 11,100 there are only so many places you can go. But it doesn’t prevent a 756 pilot from going to the A320 or 787 pilot from going to the 756. You can’t limit it enough to have minimal training. Pilot bids rarely make sense.

post some numbers help me understand what you are saying instead of just telling me I’m wrong.
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Old 04-16-2020 | 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 89Pistons
Who said anything about furloughing out of seniority? Again, go take a look at the seniority demographics. Take a look at how many FO's are senior to 11,100 on each fleet. And consider that not every displacement requires training.
Using your 11,100 number there are about 560 pilots junior to that just on the 756, 777, and 787 that wouldn’t create additional training cycles. If they decide that they are going to park the 757, they can displace and train those who will survive furlough on the 320 or 737 as October approaches.
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Old 04-16-2020 | 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by The stillest
Depression-level unemployment? Really? That makes this sound very very scary

btw, The depression lasted for a decade. We’re a month or two in to a health crisis and people will start going back to work in a few weeks. Some of those who will return to work will need to travel by air. Many outside salespeople are through “teleconferencing” and need to get to see their customers in person, or risk losing them

If you could go back in time to December 1929 and tell people via national radio, “don’t worry, businesses will reopen in about 10 days”, do you see how your “depression level” statement is really quite hysterical?

I heard the virus can live for 3 days on the surface of the sun!
You do realize that the Federal Reserve allowed monetary liquidity to decline, instead of increasing the supply of money, right? Unlike now. You’re comparing something that happened 91 years ago to today. You really think these are the same thing?
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Old 04-16-2020 | 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
I guess I don’t understand what you are saying. I get that if you pick 11,100 there are only so many places you can go. But it doesn’t prevent a 756 pilot from going to the A320 or 787 pilot from going to the 756. You can’t limit it enough to have minimal training. Pilot bids rarely make sense.

post some numbers help me understand what you are saying instead of just telling me I’m wrong.
I gave you a number. If you understand the displacement and volunteer displacement rules then you should get it.

They can displace from EVERY fleet simultaneously. And they can run a second round displacement with the new junior man in category numbers before training the folks from the first round. You're right that you they can't precisely predict pilot displacement behavior.....unless you do it in a way that takes away many of the options.
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Old 04-16-2020 | 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Itsajob
Using your 11,100 number there are about 560 pilots junior to that just on the 756, 777, and 787 that wouldn’t create additional training cycles.
I'm glad you understand what I'm trying to tell MOP. That's halfway to 1000 without even considering the 320 and 737.
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Old 04-16-2020 | 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by 89Pistons
I'm glad you understand what I'm trying to tell MOP. That's halfway to 1000 without even considering the 320 and 737.
I get that.....that’s not hard to understand. Iv alread said the OCt 1 displacement we’ll be large I could see 1000 going out the door.

but now let’s look beyond that. Let’s look at the next round that cuts into Captains and WB FOs that can go anywhere. And now let’s look at my REQUAL numbers.....that’s where I say 100 a month becomes a stretch to furlough.

that’s where our disagreement lies....not about the initial furlough number
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Old 04-16-2020 | 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
Let’s look at the next round that cuts into Captains and WB FOs that can go anywhere. And now let’s look at my REQUAL numbers.....that’s where I say 100 a month becomes a stretch to furlough.

that’s where our disagreement lies....not about the initial furlough number
Ok I see where the disconnect might be. Remember, we use the junior pilot in category to determine where displaced folks can go to. If they displace to a certain number on the first wave, the second wave could possibly only offer two choices, 737 and Bus FO.....some of which are already there.
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