Furlough estimate - Page 166 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#1651

Broncofan , 08-27-2020 01:42 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flynn

It should go to the 1st or 2nd class in May 15’

lol awesome I was June of 15

#1652

afhercdriver , 08-27-2020 01:51 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncofan

lol awesome I was June of 15

Sorry guys

#1653

duvie , 08-27-2020 02:01 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Looks like April 28th class to me

#1654

SystemB , 08-27-2020 02:48 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JetBlast77

There have been numerous CCS messages for the hiring of pilot instructors. Due to the furloughs and massive training now required on the Narrowbody fleets, they have to replace the instructors that will be furloughed as a result of this thing. If they furlough all the way to 3900 from the bottom, that will be nearly HALF of the 737 PIs.

I’m sorry, I thought he meant “TK openings [for furloughed pilots]”. Instead, he meant “how can I benefit from this mess”. My bad.

#1655

Huell , 08-27-2020 02:52 PM

777 - ret

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

Winter's here. With several Polar Vortices in the forecast.
It will be so cold outside that you're going to want to check your package after you get back inside. One or both of your gonads might fall off when you venture outside.

NSFW - language

I hope you are right but I'm expecting more bad weather late this winter.

#1656

Viperstick , 08-27-2020 02:56 PM

Gets Weekends Off

This is truly a gut punch and certainly unprecedented. A few thoughts:

First, the early out program that was advertised as a furlough mitigation tool not only didn’t mitigate a single furlough of the 2250 WARNed, their departure has been accelerated and added to by over a quarter. Yes, I’m aware there’s a pandemic and demand is in the outhouse, but the VEOP and other voluntary programs have not moved the needle one micrometer in labor’s direction. What makes anyone think anything else we do will help our cause?

I would contend that the rumored furlough mitigation proposal is designed to get us to pay for management’s extraction from their colossal training nightmare. The 737 TI manning will be decimated if the company furloughs 3900. Keeping all pilots on property for a yet to be announced period buys time to train displaced pilots & TI replacements, but it also costs money to pay extraneous employees. Hence the tiered MPG cuts that will pay for the temporary retention of unneeded pilots.

The rumored tiered MPG concession drives a wedge between the three levels of seniority, but it also drives a wedge between those in the bottom tier who have been formally WARNed and those who have not. If we concede, those not yet WARNed will likely be furloughed earlier than they would if we do not concede (see rationale above), effectively negating the seniority based furlough protections we’ve already paid for in our contract.

Keep an eye on whether TIs are subject to the same MPG cuts and/or LPV caps. The obvious answer is no.

Once the bottom third is furloughed, what will be the next target for the company? The bottom third won’t have a vote, but rest assured there will be more slicing & dicing of the membership to get us to give up parts of our contract already paid for.

I have heard over and over: we fly, they manage. Based on what I’ve laid out above, I believe this is a management problem that we have no business sticking our noses into. I think we’re all concerned about those facing furlough (truth in advertising, I’m part of the bottom tier, but not yet WARNed). I would suggest some kind of in-house ALPA assistance to furloughed pilots in lieu of a company proposal that has specious announced reasoning and very real threats to our contractual protections.

Remember, it’s just business...

#1657

mmm123 , 08-27-2020 03:07 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viperstick

This is truly a gut punch and certainly unprecedented. A few thoughts:
First, the early out program that was advertised as a furlough mitigation tool not only didn’t mitigate a single furlough of the 2250 WARNed, their departure has been accelerated and added to by over a quarter. Yes, I’m aware there’s a pandemic and demand is in the outhouse, but the VEOP and other voluntary programs have not moved the needle one micrometer in labor’s direction. What makes anyone think anything else we do will help our cause?

I would contend that the rumored furlough mitigation proposal is designed to get us to pay for management’s extraction from their colossal training nightmare. The 737 TI manning will be decimated if the company furloughs 3900. Keeping all pilots on property for a yet to be announced period buys time to train displaced pilots & TI replacements, but it also costs money to pay extraneous employees. Hence the tiered MPG cuts that will pay for the temporary retention of unneeded pilots.

The rumored tiered MPG concession drives a wedge between the three levels of seniority, but it also drives a wedge between those in the bottom tier who have been formally WARNed and those who have not. If we concede, those not yet WARNed will likely be furloughed earlier than they would if we do not concede (see rationale above), effectively negating the seniority based furlough protections we’ve already paid for in our contract.

Keep an eye on whether TIs are subject to the same MPG cuts and/or LPV caps. The obvious answer is no.

Once the bottom third is furloughed, what will be the next target for the company? The bottom third won’t have a vote, but rest assured there will be more slicing & dicing of the membership to get us to give up parts of our contract already paid for.

I have heard over and over: we fly, they manage. Based on what I’ve laid out above, I believe this is a management problem that we have no business sticking our noses into. I think we’re all concerned about those facing furlough (truth in advertising, I’m part of the bottom tier, but not yet WARNed). I would suggest some kind of in-house ALPA assistance to furloughed pilots in lieu of a company proposal that has specious announced reasoning and very real threats to our contractual protections.

Remember, it’s just business...

I like the ALPA assistance idea. My big picture is this management team will take us into ch-11 in the not too distant future. JMO

#1658

Hedley , 08-27-2020 03:14 PM

Gets Weekends Off

“First, the early out program that was advertised as a furlough mitigation tool not only didn’t mitigate a single furlough of the 2250 WARNed, their departure has been accelerated and added to by over a quarter. Yes, I’m aware there’s a pandemic and demand is in the outhouse, but the VEOP and other voluntary programs have not moved the needle one micrometer in labor’s direction. What makes anyone think anything else we do will help our cause?“

It could be that it was a mitigation tool, and without it the number of furlough notices would be higher.

#1659

Huell , 08-27-2020 03:15 PM

777 - ret

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmm123

I like the ALPA assistance idea. My big picture is this management team will take us into ch-11 in the not too distant future. JMO

I agree.

I read where guys figure how long UAL (or any of the other airlines) can last based on available cash and the cash burn ... As most of us know, you don't go into BK after burning ALL of your cash ... You have to go in with cash ... unless you don't plan to ... Never mind.

Hoping for the best for all of you guys and gals ...

#1660

Up7997 , 08-27-2020 04:48 PM

Line Holder

Burning 26 mil a day. Bankruptcy is coming if no assistance. No way around it, not even a vaccine.
Do we really think after a vaccine is approved travel will immediately accelerate? Nope! This will take at least a year and the burn rate doesn’t add up. Hold the contract or not, the lawyers and judge will gut it.