Delta’s Early Out for Pilots
06-26-2020, 05:19 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Position: 757/767
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by Oletimer
After the merger the decision was made NOT to lead, but to follow. Management figured it would be TOO HARD to lead the industry, so they decided to try and place 2nd or 3rd. Just like a horse race, win, place, or show. You still win. Because of this stragegy you see management lag in other areas as well. We will never win or lead. just lag or follow.
Collective bargaining is the same strategy. Management does not want to set the price of a pilot. Once they know what the price is they will adapt.
We can play leap frog effectively if we have the right mindset. You can't fight city hall. So the MEC would be wise to recognize the strategy and simply play leap frog better and better. Delta plus. AA plus, SWA plus. Whatever.
They have SWA guppy captains making 450K plus a year. RIGHT NOW. That is the truth. I bet they got guys making more. I just know a guy and looked at his W-2. Seems like he didn't even work that hard. SWA is flying guppies and they are a LCC and they are smashing it! I'll layover in Elpaso for the rest of my career if I can make that coin.
BUT...WE WILL NEVER lead the pack. Our best course of action is to "draft" like a race car driver behind the leaders and hope to make incremental gains. Delta plus, etc., is a very viable and cost effective strategy. It gives us more leverage and is way more effective than doing all the heavy lifting ourselves.
Collective bargaining is the same strategy. Management does not want to set the price of a pilot. Once they know what the price is they will adapt.
We can play leap frog effectively if we have the right mindset. You can't fight city hall. So the MEC would be wise to recognize the strategy and simply play leap frog better and better. Delta plus. AA plus, SWA plus. Whatever.
They have SWA guppy captains making 450K plus a year. RIGHT NOW. That is the truth. I bet they got guys making more. I just know a guy and looked at his W-2. Seems like he didn't even work that hard. SWA is flying guppies and they are a LCC and they are smashing it! I'll layover in Elpaso for the rest of my career if I can make that coin.
BUT...WE WILL NEVER lead the pack. Our best course of action is to "draft" like a race car driver behind the leaders and hope to make incremental gains. Delta plus, etc., is a very viable and cost effective strategy. It gives us more leverage and is way more effective than doing all the heavy lifting ourselves.
06-26-2020, 05:42 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Aquaticus
We have to do better. We are paying top dollar for leaders and getting Americans scraps. Ewr-mco was down to one oversold flight a day... two weeks later two oversold flights a day with oversold regionals scattered throughout florida. The crews are being paid by the government, fuel is under $40 a barrel, and we have a whole fleet of 160+ seat airplanes sitting around. There is no excuse. Our credit cards will make more than our fares this quarter and they are dependent on pure numbers of people flown. We are now adding flights in July on mainline AFTER delta and the every LCC is preparing to fly 50-70% of their schedule. Lead or GTFO
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06-26-2020, 05:47 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
Originally Posted by GPullR
You can fly 50-70% of your flights all you want. Tsa numbers don't lie. Around 20% of birmal traffic. So if you fly 50-70% you will slowly die.
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06-26-2020, 05:50 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 756
Posts: 79
So where are all the @ss holes that were arguing that Early Outs did not make financial sense.
Sure we can use the argument that we were waiting to see what everyone else was doing before we draft our own BS.
Oh well, let’s just keep arguing about UAL/CAL SLI or PP pick up because we have become the laughing stock of the industry.
We are SH!T.
Sure we can use the argument that we were waiting to see what everyone else was doing before we draft our own BS.
Oh well, let’s just keep arguing about UAL/CAL SLI or PP pick up because we have become the laughing stock of the industry.
We are SH!T.
06-26-2020, 06:26 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by sleeves
Not if you only need 10% load factor to make money. With fuel at an all time low and the salaries covered. Not a whole lot of reasons not to compete.
06-26-2020, 06:30 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 215
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
I gotta believe this puts some kind of pressure on. It’s going to be real bad PR when UA puts 4000 pilots on the street and no one else does.
were the only one of the big 4 with out an EO.
were the only one of the big 4 with out an EO.
06-27-2020, 12:07 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by Oletimer
After the merger the decision was made NOT to lead, but to follow. Management figured it would be TOO HARD to lead the industry, so they decided to try and place 2nd or 3rd. Just like a horse race, win, place, or show. You still win. Because of this stragegy you see management lag in other areas as well. We will never win or lead. just lag or follow.
Collective bargaining is the same strategy. Management does not want to set the price of a pilot. Once they know what the price is they will adapt.
We can play leap frog effectively if we have the right mindset. You can't fight city hall. So the MEC would be wise to recognize the strategy and simply play leap frog better and better. Delta plus. AA plus, SWA plus. Whatever.
They have SWA guppy captains making 450K plus a year. RIGHT NOW. That is the truth. I bet they got guys making more. I just know a guy and looked at his W-2. Seems like he didn't even work that hard. SWA is flying guppies and they are a LCC and they are smashing it! I'll layover in Elpaso for the rest of my career if I can make that coin.
BUT...WE WILL NEVER lead the pack. Our best course of action is to "draft" like a race car driver behind the leaders and hope to make incremental gains. Delta plus, etc., is a very viable and cost effective strategy. It gives us more leverage and is way more effective than doing all the heavy lifting ourselves.
Collective bargaining is the same strategy. Management does not want to set the price of a pilot. Once they know what the price is they will adapt.
We can play leap frog effectively if we have the right mindset. You can't fight city hall. So the MEC would be wise to recognize the strategy and simply play leap frog better and better. Delta plus. AA plus, SWA plus. Whatever.
They have SWA guppy captains making 450K plus a year. RIGHT NOW. That is the truth. I bet they got guys making more. I just know a guy and looked at his W-2. Seems like he didn't even work that hard. SWA is flying guppies and they are a LCC and they are smashing it! I'll layover in Elpaso for the rest of my career if I can make that coin.
BUT...WE WILL NEVER lead the pack. Our best course of action is to "draft" like a race car driver behind the leaders and hope to make incremental gains. Delta plus, etc., is a very viable and cost effective strategy. It gives us more leverage and is way more effective than doing all the heavy lifting ourselves.
Do you read your contract comparisons? Let me help you out. 12 year SWA captain rate is 238 TFP and line guarantee for a 31 day month is 89. = $254k/ year. All the lines pay the same now. Throw in a little vacation overlap. There is almost no open time and even less premium flying. $285k a year for flying your line.
We have a very tiny group of players in cartels who still carry around their W-2's from our retro pay contract year because as usual we went 4 years past amendable date so 4 years of retro on it. . Braggadociosly lying about our pay is part of their genetic structure for some reason, perhaps as a device to make up for other insecurities and inadequacies.
So I'm really sorry... sincerely. I wish that we had raised the bar (for once) but maybe we will at least maintain our own lagging bar in this black swan event as we did after 9/11. Hopefully that won't need to happen. Speaking of 9/11, remember right before 9/11 we were 39 percent below industry average narrow body pay.
Remember too, that we just got a B fund! We pay for our own parking. We have no long call reserve. I could go on and on and on.
Good luck to all my UAL brothers and sisters. Looking from the outside one of the positives I see is that solid retirement curve over there. The other is that your union and pilot group really have fairly consistently raised the bar and stood the ground. Thank You.
06-27-2020, 03:16 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
So, if we come out the other side of this and SK starts trying to grow (like he did several years ago, despite Wall Street’s criticism), do you guys keep up the “I should be boss of the world” condescending negativity or do you admit that you didn’t have all the facts and were premature with your conclusions?
SK isn’t Oscar and he’s got his flaws, but following others and shrinking to profitability isn’t one of them.
SK isn’t Oscar and he’s got his flaws, but following others and shrinking to profitability isn’t one of them.
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