horrido27

So lets get this straight.
We are NOT retiring any Fleets..
We are NOT losing the most money per day...
We just got rid of one of our Express contractors, the one with the best reputation.
We just had an Early Out/Furlough Mitigation Program that resulted in INCREASED furlough numbers!*
*A historic NEW!
At the end of the day, we are furloughing more pilots than our competitors. Some of which are furloughing no one.

I'm not sure if "Hold my Bier" is the right title, or if Lucy pulling the Football from Charlie would have been appropriate.. but what happened today should stay etched in EVERY Post Merger Hire.
Legacy UAL pilots have already seen this movie.
The story of the Frog & the scorpion.

To ALL the potential furloughees.. especially the added 600, I can only say that I (and ALL Legacy Pilots) know what you are going through. Stay Strong.. Don't Give up the Ship. Almost all of us will do what we can to support you. There will be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Always
Motch

bigfatdaddy

Yes sir, we’ve been played.

Andy

We have the most international exposure.
We could shrink to 1/3 of pre-Covid size and still be way overstaffed.

Did you read the last quarterly report?
Do you know what our cash burn rate is?
How much smaller do we have to get to break even?

Passenger revenue is down 93.5%.
Things are fugly for United.
De Nial. Not just a river in Egypt.

CleCapt

To quote Gordon Bethune when asked about first attempt at merger between Continental and United

“United is drowning in 100’ of water and we are drowning in 10’ of water. But we’re both drowning!”

Currently United burning through $26m/ day and somehow we think it’s OK.
After 911. United was losing $5m/day and ended in bankruptcy.

How do you HONESTLY think this will end??

Good luck to us all, we’re drowning.

WhisperJet

Motch, my guess is you will see more furloughs at the other legacies as well. UAL has been very conservative in its moves - not revamping too quickly, drawing down more dramatically. Two months ago everyone was complaining that AA and SW were flying so much. Well, their experiment didn't work. UAL correctly anticipated sustained suppressed loads and was able to save much more cash because of it.

My guess is that UAL is getting out in front of this cutting staff quickly where the others will be doing it eventually. Maybe UAL WILL be better poised to take advantage of the recovery. We'll see. For now I will trust that leadership knows what it's doing with regards to long term survival of the company. Our job is to preserve our UPA.

Al Czervik

Kirby......
Concessions is job 1

Hedley

Initially people thought that we’d be at 50% by now and 70% by the end of the year. The industry missed that mark by a bunch.

To adjust some of your points:
We are not retiring any fleets.....yet, but if things don’t miraculously return soon, I’d expect the 756 to be gone.
We got rid of some express carriers....they may not be the last.
Our early out program didn’t increase furloughs. The number could have been higher without the program.

Are we really cutting deeper? Others have announced smaller furloughs, but their retirement numbers are much higher than ours and they don’t have close to the international exposure that we do. Is the percentage shrink about the same considering total pilots leaving in the next couple of years? I’m asking. I really don’t know.

The people in the Willis Tower know what our future bookings are, and for the most part, they are nonexistent. This is far worse than anyone could have imagined and there are many unanswered questions. If the government does step in to maintain the infrastructure, at what level is support necessary? Is it 50%, 60%, 100%? Should the taxpayers cover thousands of unneeded airline employees wages at pre-COVID levels to avoid furloughs, or do they allow the airlines shrink to some smaller level to provide the infrastructure and have the airlines in position to grow out of this with the eventual recovery?

If the government doesn’t step in, will the full 3,900 pilots and countless other employees be enough to stop the bleeding if we don’t get above 50% for a year or so? Not trying to sound overly pessimistic, but we’ve missed every prediction on the recovery by a large margin. It may be time to admit that this won’t be a short lived deal.

horrido27

Some of you guys can continue to defend the company. So be it.
But the REALITY is, we were TOLD 1750, then 250 and another 250.
We were TOLD that furlough mitigations would help those numbers.
Then.. we were TOLD that we may need to furlough even more in 2021.

Yes, I get that this CoVid19 Virus isn't going away. And that we are fat on International travel and Business Travel. We have also been told that we are killing it on the cargo side.
We have also been told manpower planning & training knows what they are doing. That canceling all training in May was done due to all those pilots being redundant or being displaced. We see how great that plan worked. Every day 100% trips in open time. Paying 10-15K ADD Pay for a single trip- money that would save one or two pilots in a few months.

Now, out of the blue we find out we are furloughing even more than initially announced! That's a hell of a Furlough Mitigation Program we just had.
There is NO EXCUSE to announce added furloughs and move up the dates of others. NONE.

Whatever airline emerges when this is all over will NEVER be what it could have been.
Management keeps saying that they want to be ready to pounce when things turn around. I (personal opinion) think they are in for a rude awakening.
Unfortunately, the same now applies to our Pilot Group. We will be operating under our current CBA for many many years to come.
So Be It.

Motch

bigfatdaddy

Well said! FPLD! FUPM! Oh yeah and fly the contract!

MasterOfPuppets

Motch I get what you are saying bud. Here’s the deal though, what are our FINAL furlough numbers? The day we recall that first pilot the union AND the company will say this is a great victory for the bottom 500-600 pilots that didn’t get furloughed. We successfully saved their job. We can all clap and feel good about a job well done.

I have no doubt that we successfully mitigated furloughs, but from what seniority number? I haven’t a clue.....