Originally Posted by KonaJoe (Post 3131312)

Fair enough, and I don't disagree with your other post either. However, let's not forget the 5 year tack-on the older guys got to recoup and keep working. What did that do to the guys who were furloughed?

If you think the only "me" generation are the millennials, you'd be mistaken.

Originally Posted by jumppilot (Post 3131318)

If there was no TA, and a junior pilot demanded I (we) save their job, I’d chalk that up to lashing out in times of stress. I get it.

The post you’re referencing was in poor taste and that pilot needs to tone it down. Social media makes it easier for thoughts in your head to be heard, and sometimes they shouldn’t be. Venting like he did is better said while having beers with friends.

Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 3130873)

Please. No one is apathetic that pilots are going to lose their jobs. Kindly lay off the drama since it appears that your sales pitch is already working just fine. If you will recall, a whole bunch of us already got to ride that seat-post ONLY bike. Some for a decade.

Weird times when the company has 17B in cash and yet our asses are on fire this week.
Weird times when we are considering upending the contract when CARES2 is still in limbo.
Weird times when we are considering chopping the seniority list up and having them each claw at the others with our different viewpoints.
Weird times when we willingly take on the companies economic problem and rush to make it our own.
Weird times when this program was initially sold as something that will prevent furloughs and now it looks as though they'll likely get furloughed anyway. Just like a whole mess of us did. Some twice in the past. Where was the big group-hug-Kumbaya then? ALPA was completely apathetic then.
Weird times when money is being taken out of one pilots pocket so that it can be put into anothers.
Weird times when seniority is no longer sacrosanct.
Weird times when we are willing to take on 24 months of concessions to save jobs for 8 only months.
Weird times when suddenly ALPA is the boogeyman for furloughing pilots and not the company.
Weird times when I've been told for 20 years that I'll have time to make it up and now I'll just have to suck it up.
Weird times when the Monthy Pay Guarantee will now be what exactly? It sure as hell isn't a guarantee worth having. How are we to plan on our futures?

Originally Posted by duvie (Post 3131336)

Grumble, I think you are allowing your narrative on “entitlement” to color your interpretation of what I’m actually saying.

entitlement is simply the belief an individual has that they deserve some thing. If they do deserve it, then their sense of entitlement is correct… like a senior pilot being entitled to full mpg in your view

All I am asking you is where you draw the line. What philosophy or metrics do you use to decide who is deserving? One could argue many of the double furloughees came from a generation that should’ve known pensions should not be counted on...

The problem with you thinking you understand who deserves what and therefore has a correct sense of entitlement, is that there are so many people with different circumstances and different life experiences smattered throughout our seniority ranks. It is hard to categorically say that someone who is more senior is more deserving and thus entitled to keep their full pay. Do you understand what I’m getting at?

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot (Post 3131257)

I don’t have a dog in this fight other than being a dues paying ALPA member but why didn’t they do the 50hr long term leaves on a voluntary basis. Let the company decide how many in each seat and base they want and then when they are bid for you calculate the savings and see how many furloughs it mitigates. Guys that sign up get to voluntarily take a bunch of time off and get paid 50hrs/mo to do it. Anyone that doesn’t do it gets to keep their full pay. At that point hopefully enough savings adds up to mitigating all furloughs.

Southwest did this, Spirit did this, and I think AA but I’m not sure.

This United deal seems concessionary and snap back provisions never seem to play out like they’re supposed to.

Been furloughed before but outside looking in I think there is a better solution than this TA

Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 3131306)

In order...

That's not for you to decide. You don't get moral credit for forcing someone to support others nor do you get to dictate whats a hardship.

Originally Posted by Chuck D (Post 3131433)

can one assume you were a no vote on the furlough fund then?

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 3131294)

my goal in life is to never be the person you just described. Me me me is a bad way to go through life.

Originally Posted by cessnapilot (Post 3131547)

I said that in my 30s... now with kids in college and on airline number 5... it’s all about trying to get to retirement. When you’re at the end game and you have limited time to make up for past airline bankruptcies, furloughs, concessions, snap backs that never occurred, pensions lost, and other setbacks, your perspective changes.