The 9 Triggers
08-11-2021, 07:26 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,343
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
So, you're saying... nevermind. Anyone have a reference as to why the LOA hasn't been terminated? Such as a paragraph number in the LOA?
08-12-2021, 05:42 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
I know that. I’m saying where in the LOA does it say that the triggers only apply when we are under reduced work hours. I’ve looked several times and can’t find it.
When the company announced that it would hire, they met with the union and both sides agreed that the original intent wasn't to keep the E-175s restricted to 70 seats while new-hires were on property. If the new-hires are subsequently furloughed, the seats will have to be removed again.
08-12-2021, 05:48 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,380
Originally Posted by Larry in TN
When the LOA was negotiated, nobody anticipated the possibility of having new-hires so soon so no provisions for such a situation was written into it.
When the company announced that it would hire, they met with the union and both sides agreed that the original intent wasn't to keep the E-175s restricted to 70 seats while new-hires were on property. If the new-hires are subsequently furloughed, the seats will have to be removed again.
When the company announced that it would hire, they met with the union and both sides agreed that the original intent wasn't to keep the E-175s restricted to 70 seats while new-hires were on property. If the new-hires are subsequently furloughed, the seats will have to be removed again.
I looked through all of the MEC updates on the website and I can’t even find a discussion that this was ever addressed.
Last edited by ThumbsUp; 08-12-2021 at 06:24 AM.
08-12-2021, 06:05 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: 777 FO
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
But is that in a separate LOA? I understand what you are am saying conceptually, but when a LOA is passed and then subsequently any of the terms are just juggled around, sometimes followed, sometimes not, it doesn’t seem like any of the good or bad aspects mean anything at all.
I looked through all of the MEC updates on the website and I can’t even find a discussion that this was ever addressed.
I looked through all of the MEC updates on the website and I can’t even find a discussion that this was ever addressed.
“The Temporary Provisions of this Agreement shall terminate on the earliest of the following”
08-12-2021, 05:47 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
But is that in a separate LOA? I understand what you are saying conceptually, but when a LOA is passed and then subsequently any of the terms are just juggled around, sometimes followed, sometimes not, it doesn’t seem like any of the good or bad aspects mean anything at all.
The parties do not negotiate the final language, they negotiate concepts. Detailed notes are taken regarding what the parties intend. This is the agreement-in-principle (AIP). After the AIP is reached on all sections, the parties draft language to reflect the AIP. They attempt to draft language that perfectly replicates the AIP but that isn't always the result.
When something unanticipated comes up, and both parties agree as to what the intend of a section was, there is no need to revise the actual wording. If the parties do not agree, the minutes of the negotiations, documents, etc. are referenced and, if necessary, arbitrated to determine how the concepts from the AIP should apply.
08-12-2021, 06:06 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,380
Originally Posted by Larry in TN
That is not how contracts under the RLA work.
The parties do not negotiate the final language, they negotiate concepts. Detailed notes are taken regarding what the parties intend. This is the agreement-in-principle (AIP). After the AIP is reached on all sections, the parties draft language to reflect the AIP. They attempt to draft language that perfectly replicates the AIP but that isn't always the result.
When something unanticipated comes up, and both parties agree as to what the intend of a section was, there is no need to revise the actual wording. If the parties do not agree, the minutes of the negotiations, documents, etc. are referenced and, if necessary, arbitrated to determine how the concepts from the AIP should apply.
The parties do not negotiate the final language, they negotiate concepts. Detailed notes are taken regarding what the parties intend. This is the agreement-in-principle (AIP). After the AIP is reached on all sections, the parties draft language to reflect the AIP. They attempt to draft language that perfectly replicates the AIP but that isn't always the result.
When something unanticipated comes up, and both parties agree as to what the intend of a section was, there is no need to revise the actual wording. If the parties do not agree, the minutes of the negotiations, documents, etc. are referenced and, if necessary, arbitrated to determine how the concepts from the AIP should apply.
Although I still think some of those temporary provisions are still effective why ugh does make me scratch my head.
08-14-2021, 07:39 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by Birddog
Simple.
The MEC didn't want the LOA terminated because they didn't want to be unfaithful to those whose votes they bought for LOA passage through pay protection and are still receiving their bribes.
It is what it is.
The MEC didn't want the LOA terminated because they didn't want to be unfaithful to those whose votes they bought for LOA passage through pay protection and are still receiving their bribes.
It is what it is.
08-15-2021, 06:14 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 168
Just to the point. Heard it from a rep, but he didn't phrase it quite the way I did. Other reps have said similar things.
It makes sense. One way of doing business I suppose.
It is what it is. Yawn.
It makes sense. One way of doing business I suppose.
It is what it is. Yawn.
Last edited by Birddog; 08-15-2021 at 06:33 AM.
08-15-2021, 01:44 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
I don’t think it’s really up to interpretation—I kept glancing over the the “The Temporary Provisions of this Agreement shall terminate on the earliest of the following” underneath T.
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