I think this was a great quote for guys like you as well - “Grow up. This is why we will always come up short....jagoffs like you who like to play stupid games to amuse yourself.. What a douche.”

I did, And I voted no.

An insightful post. Have you found that $20 yet? I’ve been asking around for you but most remember pilots being very generous and offering the OMC free of charge.

Kirby wants scope relief and wasn’t going to get it pre-Covid. Now that Insler has allowed him to divide us, now will be the time to conquer us and get scope relief. He will not let this crisis go to waste. Think about it from his perspective. How can he finally attain enough votes for scope relief?

1. Give a pay raise once the furloughees hit the streets. Boom, lots of yes votes right there.
2. He will try to ensure enough yes voters with a retirement annuity since pilots just lost 8 moths of contributions to the B/C plan. Boom, more yes votes.
3. This turd of a LOA has basically ****ed off 42% of the list and the majority of them are in the top 2/3. Boom, more yes votes.
4. He can pounce with RJs.
5. Since many pilots will finally be displaced to NB from WB seats, they will look to vote yes with the 15% raise.


This is a simple plan by management. He’s just figured out how to get scope relief. Just watch how this plays out. Divide and conquer played perfectly by a shrewd CEO.

Don’t Shoot the messenger. There will no rapid recovery. He stated that he expects to fly a 50% schedule next summer. That’s about 4K furloughs. He will not carry extra pilots. Do you think the board members will allow that indefinitely? This is basic business 101. He’s always been a fan of scope relief and this simple plan may finally work for him.

The majority of pilots will vote in their own best interests, not all but most. If you don’t think the above scenario is a real possibility, then you’re fooling yourself.

The model definitely doesn’t work with 13,000. Is “some” other tweaked model more like to work with 9,000 vs current plan? Probably.

This LOA gave him a few opportunities.

1. Allows him to keep pilots on the property for 8 months just in case a super vaccine was found and people suddenly wanted to fly. ( most likely not going to happen).

2. Allows him to get pilots in NB seats from WB seats by June 1. (Most likely since a furlough will happen).

3. He can still not lose market share by using RJs. He did it at American and will try to do it here by a new LOA on June 1. (Perhaps might happen).

Beware of the wolf in the sheep’s clothing.

Kirby will try and buy scope relief with raises and a annuity. With almost 99% of pilots losing money of this turd LOA, he will use that to his advantage and offer money that we have lost to gain scope relief. If you were CEO, wouldn’t you try that? And what a perfect opportunity to try it after we just took it in the shorts with pay. Now you just have to worry if that would pass since most pilots vote in their own self interest.

Your prediction is very unlikely to happen.

CARES 2 will likely pass by the end of January which extends no furloughs to Dec 2021.

A vaccine will likely start to be distributed before next June.

While the Coronavirus positivity rate is increasing slightly, it's not ramping up. Don't confuse the number of positives (which is all the news talks about) with historic positive numbers because testing has ramped up significantly.

On a personal note, are you an alcoholic or drug user? If so, please seek help. You rattle on, saying the same thing over and over - and the odds of any of that happening is very small.

Where did you see dec for cares 2? Yes I am alcoholic and crackhead, thanks for the heads up.

JFC. You didn't even read the TA before voting. Says a lot about you.

Provided the loan component of the CARES Act is still offered, the Company must claim its full original allocation by the deadline set by the US Treasury. If the Company does not subsequently access that full original allocation prior to the deadline for such access set by the US Treasury, or if the Company does not otherwise borrow or raise the amount of any shortfall to that full original allocation through any other public or private market source, then no Pilot shall be placed on furlough prior to the first day of the December 2021 Bid Period.


This is saying that no furloughs prior to DEC 1, if the company doesn’t take the full allocation.......

in the TA.....you read it right?

You're just flat out wrong. I wasn't able to vote on this TA, but should be able to vote on the next. Bottom third. I would have been a yes if I had been able to vote but not simply to save my own skin, but because I think it was a great deal that smartly positions us to recover more strongly and quicker and had some decent gains which considering the environment is nuts - including some scope choke and tightening up the scope restrictions and still forcing UA to pull 6 seats off the 76 seaters. I would have been a no if there were any cuts to pay or work rule cuts (I'm not counting the optional change in intl rest rules since it's optional), but an MPG flex was a realistic solution for what is really going on with the company for the next 24 months that was as close, in my eyes, to win-win for the company and pilot group. (Just look at Southwest - why would you take a 10% pay cut when UA has already shown you can achieve the same cost savings for the company through a MPG cut?). But nobody is going to vote yes to scope relief for the company just for some retirement benefit or 15% pay raise. Everybody has seen what scope means and been around the block before on this one. So many here now came from the regionals/express carriers and have zero appetite to expand them. You're really saying Insler is going to do a 180 from last year when we were saying bring the 175s here and we'll fly them at mainline? I doubt it. Your prediction will not come to pass, and if it did, it would get voted down very quickly.

Shouldn’t you be on the “new” forum with Garry, Ron, Neil, and “Tuco”?

I used to be concerned about the things I saw posted there.....until I noticed there are only ever about 8-15 users online. And it’s always the same guys.

I think the scabs and you would vote yes to an unlikely LOA like this. Everyone else, no.

I don’t think I’d be welcomed over there. Just trying to keep the process rolling. Hopefully things will turn around by June. If not we need to find a way to prevent furloughs. If we furlough we lose votes my friend.

When you think you’re battling 8-15 people keep in mind 42% voted against. Many of those are pretty upset. If we lose 2000 votes on June 1 and a few LECs are flipped, I’m next. Once you combine a new and willing MEC with the open ear of management all bets are off.

I’d start saving now because more cuts are coming to save the furloughs and your MEC.

[QUOTE=TillerTemptress;3147571]You're just flat out wrong. I wasn't able to vote on this TA, but should be able to vote on the next. Bottom third. I would have been a yes if I had been able to vote but not simply to save my own skin, but because I think it was a great deal that smartly positions us to recover more strongly and quicker and had some decent gains which considering the environment is nuts - including some scope choke and tightening up the scope restrictions and still forcing UA to pull 6 seats off the 76 seaters. I would have been a no if there were any cuts to pay or work rule cuts



How many times do we have to go through this? There ARE PAYCUTS in the LOA, the MEC just decided not to talk about them. That's why I was a NO vote.

Leaving the vacation factor at 2:20 in vacation months is a paycut, period. Please see my prior posts on this forum. I have shown the math in public.

PREDICTION: The asteroid approaching Earth on Nov 2nd will make a direct impact:
1) It will kill all life on Earth
2) None of this crap will matter anyway

Making stuff up is fun...

No way!!! Not for 15%!!! That not enough of a raise to buy 50%+1. Too many of the voters were burned by scope give backs early in the Dark Decade. Especially those of us who spent an inordinate amount of time in Regional Pilot Purgatory.

bingo.

voting for this TA is one thing voting for scope relief is a whole nother animal.......I would be an immediate no for even 1 more regional jet.

This TA is temporary........scope is forever.

Amen.......

Your are correct, scope is forever. But that doesn’t mean SK will come a knocking on the door for relief. When was hired, 78 was mpg, now we are down to 60. Unfortunately nothing is sacred in this business, including scope.

Just like some crazy bat virus decimating our economy and careers, not to mention killing people. Never know what the future holds and SK has us ripe for scope relief in exchange for lost wages. He just needs 50+1.

We have an interest in growing the airline where allowing scope relief might benefit us. Coupled with an extension of pay raises and a retirement vehicle this could be positive.

negative.....there is no pitch good enough to even entertain scope. Furlough away.

And there you have it.......”Furlough Away”. When SK comes with the threat of 4K furloughs for scope relief on June 2, but willing to reduce that number for scope relief, he just bought some more yes voters. Look at the numbers, there is no big pounce this summer as we are all hoping. Kirby is a coming.

ok.....you are a single track record.....a .45 that’s stuck on the B side.

Going to need something to save all the furloughs. The paychecks have been reduced so can’t go into that well again. Liquidity won’t be an issue next summer. What’s left besides scope relief?

Who cares if he comes knocking? The MEC should just say no thank you and move on. The MEC knows that scope relief has no chance to ratify.

This current LOA is a different animal and was conceived for different reasons. Yes it delayed furloughs, but it also allows SK to have the necessary staffing to jump on opportunities.

You have a vivid imagination ... makin s#i+ up and such.

Lets all singalong with dark shadow 130 ...

Blue in despair, agony on end,
Deep dark depression describes the state I’m in,
If it weren’t fer bad luck I’d have no luck all,
Blue in despair, agony on end

There are lots of tough talkers on here about how they will hold the line, but as soon as the furlough gun is pointed in their face they fall to their knees pleading for their job just like they did for this TA....sad but true.

I dont even know why I’m responding to a split personality. So after this post I’m done.

you will have to furlough my vote will be a no.

What we have here is a butt-hurt no voter starting a fake news thread about a fake TA from a fake AIP from fake negotiations. There are other threads to spend your time and cranium power on, folks.....;)

There might be a vote and furlough, but not necessarily in that order.

Just like the fake rumor about lowering MPG 3 months before the TA was published.

Missed that, but if you say it happened then it must have. And your point is.......??

Even by my standards it just isn’t worth it.

Do you live around EWR? Because that would sound really good in “Soprano-speak”.