What are acceptable pay rates for the ULCC carriers then like JB, Spirit, Allegiant, etc? 10% less? 20% less?

Whatever they can negotiate……

Deliveries aren’t the problem. Those are inevitable. It’s attracting the right people at the right time to fly them that keeps management up at night. From new hires to FOs that never upgrade and Left coast vacancies. It’s the unknown numbers that matter right now.

Deliveries affect how fast their plan can be realized. They definitely need a contract in place to grow at a rapid pace, but if things slow down their need to return to the table is reduced. Classes are still full, our pay is still in line with American and Delta, and we’ve yet to see if we get new crew bases and how that affects vacancies once the flying is spread out more. Until a competitor jumps ahead of us, they aren’t in as big of a hurry as we would like. We’re asking for a lot in this contract, and rightfully so. They’re not going to sign off on a huge increase in labor cost until it is either to their advantage to do so, or when they are left with no choice.

DL guy here...

Haven't seen your rumor on any of our FB pages, or non-FB chats, or even leaks from my leadership moles, or leaks from my LEC moles, so would love to know your source.

There is no source. It’s a troll post trying to stir the pot.

yea I know...just wanted to see what he said....I should have posted with the <sarcarsm> font

Do you have nothing better to do than make up lies and stir manure?

I don’t fully disagree with your sentiment, but I’d argue building up to TUMI there was a lot of morale coming from big growth plans, movement, upgrade opportunities, etc. Also, yes, enthusiasm comes & goes to some extent but typically it goes easier than it comes, and I think they’re losing their hold on it.

I think they really do want us to buy into all this PPD “above & beyond” stuff- frankly, if you’re hiring 2,000+ a year, you should try to influence the rapidly changing culture. The thing is, another year of drawn-out stall tactics will do more to shape the attitude of the pilot group than they can ever fix in 5 years of telling us to pass out business cards to GS, etc. As aggressively as they’ve been investing in growth & expansion, I really don’t see why a modest increase above inflation would be a place to let the whole plan break down, but such I suppose is the hubris of the airline manager. Time will tell if they opt to pony up the cash & forge ahead or just get stuck fighting in the mud.

The pay rates should be the same. It is the cost of doing business. ULCCs pay the same for tires, jet fuel, landing fees, airplanes, etc. The only reason they have been able to pay their pilots less is because we let them.