25/5/5/5
11-26-2022, 11:04 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,218
Originally Posted by hummingbear
I don’t fully disagree with your sentiment, but I’d argue building up to TUMI there was a lot of morale coming from big growth plans, movement, upgrade opportunities, etc. Also, yes, enthusiasm comes & goes to some extent but typically it goes easier than it comes, and I think they’re losing their hold on it.
I think they really do want us to buy into all this PPD “above & beyond” stuff- frankly, if you’re hiring 2,000+ a year, you should try to influence the rapidly changing culture. The thing is, another year of drawn-out stall tactics will do more to shape the attitude of the pilot group than they can ever fix in 5 years of telling us to pass out business cards to GS, etc. As aggressively as they’ve been investing in growth & expansion, I really don’t see why a modest increase above inflation would be a place to let the whole plan break down, but such I suppose is the hubris of the airline manager. Time will tell if they opt to pony up the cash & forge ahead or just get stuck fighting in the mud.
I think they really do want us to buy into all this PPD “above & beyond” stuff- frankly, if you’re hiring 2,000+ a year, you should try to influence the rapidly changing culture. The thing is, another year of drawn-out stall tactics will do more to shape the attitude of the pilot group than they can ever fix in 5 years of telling us to pass out business cards to GS, etc. As aggressively as they’ve been investing in growth & expansion, I really don’t see why a modest increase above inflation would be a place to let the whole plan break down, but such I suppose is the hubris of the airline manager. Time will tell if they opt to pony up the cash & forge ahead or just get stuck fighting in the mud.
They do want us to buy into the PPD ideology. In the next couple of years, the majority of this group will be post merger. Many of the old guys are a lost cause, but they are putting in the effort to convert who they can. The big emphasis is to get the new generation to believe. It will work for a while, but after a couple of decades of watching the same old movie, they too will be jaded and frustrated with the younger pilots for buying the hype. I’m hoping for the best, but expecting more of the same old story. Those of us with 20+ years would call that realistic, those on the bottom of the list would call it pessimistic.
11-26-2022, 11:17 AM
#22
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,197
Originally Posted by Hedley
I’d agree that morale was better BT (before Tumi). We were coming out of the pandemic and many were fairly optimistic about our plans, but uncertain about the timeframe. We got a message from the union saying that they’re trying but that we’re just too far apart, then out of the blue we had an “industry leading” AIP. When it turned out to be a giant turd that optimism was replaced with anger. We are recalling and replacing reps and starting over. That takes a certain amount of time. I also think that the slower delivery rate has bought them some time as well as the potential for new bases. They can build them up if in desirable locations and let the bases with a history of open captain vacancies shrink somewhat. If new bases seem to significantly reduce the number of unfilled vacancies, that would also buy them time. They can simply wait for Delta to set the bar and then either meet or slightly beat it.
They do want us to buy into the PPD ideology. In the next couple of years, the majority of this group will be post merger. Many of the old guys are a lost cause, but they are putting in the effort to convert who they can. The big emphasis is to get the new generation to believe. It will work for a while, but after a couple of decades of watching the same old movie, they too will be jaded and frustrated with the younger pilots for buying the hype. I’m hoping for the best, but expecting more of the same old story. Those of us with 20+ years would call that realistic, those on the bottom of the list would call it pessimistic.
They do want us to buy into the PPD ideology. In the next couple of years, the majority of this group will be post merger. Many of the old guys are a lost cause, but they are putting in the effort to convert who they can. The big emphasis is to get the new generation to believe. It will work for a while, but after a couple of decades of watching the same old movie, they too will be jaded and frustrated with the younger pilots for buying the hype. I’m hoping for the best, but expecting more of the same old story. Those of us with 20+ years would call that realistic, those on the bottom of the list would call it pessimistic.
11-26-2022, 11:33 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,218
Originally Posted by BobbyLeeSwagger
Kids that grew up on the internet may be more skeptical than they get credit for. I think in the same way the older folks assume they will be taken as pessimistic instead of realistic, I think we should give the younger crowd the benefit of the doubt - let's not mistake their happy ambition, which should be expected during the greatest hiring wave in distant memory, for naivety.
11-26-2022, 11:44 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 520
Originally Posted by gzsg
The pay rates should be the same. It is the cost of doing business. ULCCs pay the same for tires, jet fuel, landing fees, airplanes, etc. The only reason they have been able to pay their pilots less is because we let them.
THe only reason they've been close is because they all got raises while none of the big 4 have had any in 4 years.
11-26-2022, 11:47 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 997
Originally Posted by GPullR
No it shouldn't. It's used as a stepping stone for most. There 100s of jobs people do the same thing and because they work for a bigger, more "prestigious" company they get paid more.
THe only reason they've been close is because they all got raises while none of the big 4 have had any in 4 years.
THe only reason they've been close is because they all got raises while none of the big 4 have had any in 4 years.
Do you also do the “forward stare” when walking past a U/LCC pilot in the terminal because they are not worthy of your prestigious acknowledgement?
