It’s a percentage. So a relative number. If we got the same monetary offer with a me too clause with a 2x snap like DL, I have no doubt that would pass if that was the only factor. Improve section 20, R&I, etc, it’s a no-brainer. Getting hung up on percentages becomes less and less important the higher your income is, just as CPI is based on lower wage earners.

 

yeah. It isn’t the money you make it’s the money you keep. Which is why the DL per diem numbers are worth looking at. Yeah, I know, per diem is not pay… Yada-yada… if I can buy stuff with it, it’s pay. And non taxable pay is the best kind.

 

Even with the 90% of fed MI&E that it’s rumored to be, that is certainly a nice tax-free bonus.

 

Percentages are a shorthand. I think most people understand that it’s possible to increase compensation in other ways than just hourly wage increases; it just gets more complex to have those conversations when at the end of the day, what we’re all saying is that we’re not willing to lose money to inflation. I could vote for a package that had lower percentages if the work rule improvements outpaced that shortcoming. At the same time, Delta is beating inflation and getting work rule gains, so why are we still talking like it’s one or the other? Feels like many of us are still trapped in the TUMI mindset.

 

You seem stuck on percentages and based on other posters, you’re not alone either. If our rates are better than Delta, they are better than Delta regardless of what that percentages is. The only way to achieve that of course, is a me too as well.

 

"lunch bags"?

Delta pilots carry lunch bags???

 

Nice post, quality content.

 

You’re accusing me of saying the opposite of what you quoted me. Intelligent people understand there are many considerations that make pay percentage numbers of greater or lesser value that must all ultimately be considered. Yes, some take an overly simplistic approach to pay percentages, but talking numbers can be useful provided it’s accompanied by the understanding that they live on a sliding scale.

My frustration is that many who are advocating lower percentages are also generally advocating a lower total package. It’s not “let’s take a lower rate & make sure the total package beats them by 10%”; more like “let’s come in slightly below them on pay & try to get one or two other things”.

 

Hummingbear,

I think you are projecting a little bit on that one… I think with myself, and people like SunVox are saying, is that there is a significant portion of our pilot group, who are very focused on pay rates… They generally don’t admit it, but stoking the flames of not acknowledging that that 5% was in fact a down payment on a future contract I do not believe is helpful overall. If we beat Delta by 5%, but do not approve many of our soft time mechanisms, like vacation, pay, training, pay, sick pay, reassignments, etc., then that 5% is essentially what you see at American Airlines now… A high hourly rate with very few contractual mechanisms to back it up. I think we should focus more of our efforts on catching up to some of their other provisions, not dying on the hill that “the 5% will not be a down payment.”

Like I said, elsewhere, the hourly rate for a specific aircraft type, C, longevity is the thing to focus on, not what the percentage increase was from our previous book. Then, look at the many other ways that we could increase or quality of life, soft time, etc..

 

And THAT, Ladies and Gentlemen, is very likely the truth . . .

I don't know if that number is completely accurate or not, but let's put that into perspective. Our POS Tumi had an estimated value under $2 billion. Delta management put out an offer that is VERY hard to top. Dubinsky famously said after we got Contract 2000 "Good luck holding on to that." Delay negotiations for months or even years for what $8 bil, 9? Haven't done the risk reward on that, but I'm pretty sure the return on risk is pitiful . . . this is all a big IF . . . as in IF UCH matches Delta's offer.

We should be high fiving as a team because I believe sincerely that Delta pilots would NEVER have gotten the offer they did if not for UAL and AA pilots almost unanimously turning down the earlier offers. Delta's AIP is a whole new level of contract with QOL gains and more. We ALL stand to benefit and should be very proud of the achievement: better retirement, better per diem, less rerouting, and much more. Trying to eke out another nickel in concessions on what is hopefully two imminent offers from UAL and AA is, in my mind, utterly foolish.