Here's one data point for you. I've been on property for nine months so I won't get any PS this year, but if I were included my check would have been for about $878. Actually would have been less than that, since including more people would have lowered the percentage everyone got. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. We've got way bigger fish to fry as we push to close out this contract.

Last I checked. Profit Sharing is a fish that needs to fry. Among a ton of other things. The days of UAL being behind DAL are over in contract substance. The NC knows this and a skeleton of a TA will not make it through.

Im confused. You say the percentage is pathetic, then you make two suggestions that would lower the percentage. I don’t think either is a bad idea, just pointing out the inconsistency.

Not losing $2B to start the year is probably the best way to increase PS. Alternatively… new contract with a decent raise should blow any PS out of the water.

Our formula is better. They are just more profitable due to less unions, fortress hubs in cheap landing fee airports, more planes centralized on a booming domestic market for the past 20 yrs, and farming out their widebody lift. Everyone on our list benefits from our widebodies pulling the senior bidders off the narrow bodies allowing you to be a higher % in whatever seat you are holding.

Two very different airlines.

Our formula is not better. In fact as we grow and add to the expense line we fall further behind. Our 2022 expense were $42,618 Million as recently reported. In order to have 6.9% profit margins we would have had to make $2.9 billion in profit. So that’s an extra $400 million that DAL gets 20% of that we don’t. As expenses go up with new aircraft and more employees, it takes even more profit to hit the 6.9% and we fall further behind. It’s simple economics of scale. The company knew this years ago and we fell for it. Another classic example of Checkers vs Chess.

I believe our expenses this year were abnormally high due to debt, excess training, building at tk and new ord ops center and aircraft purchases but they should fall. Normally we are in the 2.3-2.7B to make the 6.9% cutoff. Delta has a hard dollar cap of 2.5B for the 10%-20% limit (for those that don't know.) My point was that the problem isn't the formula as they are virtually identical. They just produce more profits than we can currently.

So you think our expenses are going down? Despite adding a net 1500 pilots per year and net growth a/c? I’m expecting a contract in 2023 so add in those billions to the expense line. I don’t have your sort of optimism that costs will be reigned in while we execute United Next. I think expenses go up over time as history has shown they do. Cost of everything has gone up with inflation. I don’t think looking back at expenses is realistic. If we don’t shrink costs only go up.

No, they are on probation with the company. Not a member of the union. They don’t have to be treated differently, just like they should not be treated differently while in training. But, probation is still a final gate to pass.

Nobody has to listen to anything anyone drones on about, on or off probation.

The fact is all of this is negotiated. We have made progress as far as new hires go. In the past new hires payed for their own INSURANCE and earned way less pay. That was fixed and it would be nice to get more for everyone including those that lost their retirement or are still trying to make up for the lost decade. But the company only agrees to so much.

Not necessary, cost go down for fixed expenses as growth and expansion occur. New Employees (especially those on probation that don’t get profit sharing 😳) are cheaper then old employees. New fuel efficient airplanes are cheaper to operate too.

Per ft website...

• TRASM of up 26% compared to fourth-quarter 2019.
• CASM of up 21%, and CASM-ex1 of up 11%, compared to fourth-quarter 2019.

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And there it is. That's our expected raise for the period 2019q4 - 2022q4: 26%. CASM lags TRASM partly because our PAY lags. When you add the missing increase% from 2019q1-2023q2, that's a 30% raise DOS if you want to match TRASM% increases. And why shouldn't we? Everything has gone up by 30%. These numbers prove that Delta has a substandard deal. And of course, it's their first offer. Demand the TRASM% increase. There's no reason not to during the best negotiating position in history.