United or SWA
02-11-2023 | 11:58 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,553
Likes: 397
ORD is crazy right now for UA.
We have a vacancy bid that is open right now and closes on Tuesday. On the snapshot after accounting for requests for the current requests for all active pilots we still end up with unfilled vacancies in ORD for:
A320 FO
B737 CAP
B737 FO
B756 FO
B787 FO
This is the first time that 787 FO is showing as unfilled. The growth/movement right now across the system is so fast it makes getting the base you want basically immediate or on the next vacancy bid. Those have been running about every 6-7 weeks. The only caveat to that is that if you are very young you might get "forced" in the 777 as an initial assignment and then you wouldn't be able to get ORD since we don't (currently) have a 777 base in ORD.
Captain assignments have been going "unfilled" for about a year now and have gone unfilled everywhere but MCO, CLE, and GUM. You have to have been here a year to bid Captain, so with the crazy hiring it means that another 200 pilots per month are able to bid it if they want. Even with that every vacancy bid continues to have unfilled Captain assignments. The guess is that with a new contract (with hopefully significant workrule improvements) we might see more people willing to take the bid, but with all the planes that are coming I am not sure anything will be enough. Fortunately, a bunch of those new airplanes are replacing 50 seaters on the regional side, with much of that affecting our larger hubs that are gate restricted. So ORD and EWR are and will continue to reap the benefits of that transition with Regionals shrinking and Mainline growing.
So, I am not sure what WN has going at MDW, but ORD is a definitely a growth option at ORD.
We have a vacancy bid that is open right now and closes on Tuesday. On the snapshot after accounting for requests for the current requests for all active pilots we still end up with unfilled vacancies in ORD for:
A320 FO
B737 CAP
B737 FO
B756 FO
B787 FO
This is the first time that 787 FO is showing as unfilled. The growth/movement right now across the system is so fast it makes getting the base you want basically immediate or on the next vacancy bid. Those have been running about every 6-7 weeks. The only caveat to that is that if you are very young you might get "forced" in the 777 as an initial assignment and then you wouldn't be able to get ORD since we don't (currently) have a 777 base in ORD.
Captain assignments have been going "unfilled" for about a year now and have gone unfilled everywhere but MCO, CLE, and GUM. You have to have been here a year to bid Captain, so with the crazy hiring it means that another 200 pilots per month are able to bid it if they want. Even with that every vacancy bid continues to have unfilled Captain assignments. The guess is that with a new contract (with hopefully significant workrule improvements) we might see more people willing to take the bid, but with all the planes that are coming I am not sure anything will be enough. Fortunately, a bunch of those new airplanes are replacing 50 seaters on the regional side, with much of that affecting our larger hubs that are gate restricted. So ORD and EWR are and will continue to reap the benefits of that transition with Regionals shrinking and Mainline growing.
So, I am not sure what WN has going at MDW, but ORD is a definitely a growth option at ORD.
MCO is also not going to grow according to SWA network folks. As the pilot group grows crews will be added here and there, but Orlando flying is the least profitable flying in the domestic biz. Everyone flies there and very little of it is business travel.
The frustrating thing about being based there is that every retiring captain who is looking to live out their days in the tax free anti-woke paradise and become a Florida Villages man moves there when they are 60, which makes it super senior. There are also a ton of AirTran guys there, also senior. The upgrade there will always go senior and there won’t be any growth. I don’t know what United’s plans are there and if they have some sort of special magic that is going to make it super profitable, but I would suspect it will stay very small and senior as well.
So yeah, that’s the frustrating thing about living in Florida and being at swa. You won't upgrade until you are there a very long time unless you decide to commute for a while.
02-11-2023 | 11:58 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 9
We are adding quite a bit of 777 flying to/from Orlando this Spring that will be staffed by our other triple bases (IAD, EWR, IAH & SFO). Totally speculative but the massive influx of Puerto Ricans and to a lesser extent Brazilians to C.Florida in the past 25 years means that high density 777-200 service to SJU and GRU/GIG is, I've been told, being studied by our network planners. LHR, subject to slot allocation/shuffling, could certainly support a daily 777 the way Brits like their Florida vacations. Add in the gate space that just opened up in our Airside 3 along with our maintenance facility there and I think a future MCO 777 base is absolutely feasible. Especially as gate constrained as all our existing hubs will become with 150 more aircraft this year alone.
I think we will grow our presence at MCO with either more 737 positions, a small 777 base, or both. Good luck with your decision!
I think we will grow our presence at MCO with either more 737 positions, a small 777 base, or both. Good luck with your decision!
02-11-2023 | 12:50 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
ORD is crazy right now for UA.
We have a vacancy bid that is open right now and closes on Tuesday. On the snapshot after accounting for requests for the current requests for all active pilots we still end up with unfilled vacancies in ORD for:
A320 FO
B737 CAP
B737 FO
B756 FO
B787 FO
This is the first time that 787 FO is showing as unfilled. The growth/movement right now across the system is so fast it makes getting the base you want basically immediate or on the next vacancy bid. Those have been running about every 6-7 weeks. The only caveat to that is that if you are very young you might get "forced" in the 777 as an initial assignment and then you wouldn't be able to get ORD since we don't (currently) have a 777 base in ORD.
Captain assignments have been going "unfilled" for about a year now and have gone unfilled everywhere but MCO, CLE, and GUM. You have to have been here a year to bid Captain, so with the crazy hiring it means that another 200 pilots per month are able to bid it if they want. Even with that every vacancy bid continues to have unfilled Captain assignments. The guess is that with a new contract (with hopefully significant workrule improvements) we might see more people willing to take the bid, but with all the planes that are coming I am not sure anything will be enough. Fortunately, a bunch of those new airplanes are replacing 50 seaters on the regional side, with much of that affecting our larger hubs that are gate restricted. So ORD and EWR are and will continue to reap the benefits of that transition with Regionals shrinking and Mainline growing.
So, I am not sure what WN has going at MDW, but ORD is a definitely a growth option at ORD.
We have a vacancy bid that is open right now and closes on Tuesday. On the snapshot after accounting for requests for the current requests for all active pilots we still end up with unfilled vacancies in ORD for:
A320 FO
B737 CAP
B737 FO
B756 FO
B787 FO
This is the first time that 787 FO is showing as unfilled. The growth/movement right now across the system is so fast it makes getting the base you want basically immediate or on the next vacancy bid. Those have been running about every 6-7 weeks. The only caveat to that is that if you are very young you might get "forced" in the 777 as an initial assignment and then you wouldn't be able to get ORD since we don't (currently) have a 777 base in ORD.
Captain assignments have been going "unfilled" for about a year now and have gone unfilled everywhere but MCO, CLE, and GUM. You have to have been here a year to bid Captain, so with the crazy hiring it means that another 200 pilots per month are able to bid it if they want. Even with that every vacancy bid continues to have unfilled Captain assignments. The guess is that with a new contract (with hopefully significant workrule improvements) we might see more people willing to take the bid, but with all the planes that are coming I am not sure anything will be enough. Fortunately, a bunch of those new airplanes are replacing 50 seaters on the regional side, with much of that affecting our larger hubs that are gate restricted. So ORD and EWR are and will continue to reap the benefits of that transition with Regionals shrinking and Mainline growing.
So, I am not sure what WN has going at MDW, but ORD is a definitely a growth option at ORD.
Definitely a crazy time to be a pilot. Thanks for the info!
02-11-2023 | 02:02 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 47
From: 767/757 CA
We are adding quite a bit of 777 flying to/from Orlando this Spring that will be staffed by our other triple bases (IAD, EWR, IAH & SFO). Totally speculative but the massive influx of Puerto Ricans and to a lesser extent Brazilians to C.Florida in the past 25 years means that high density 777-200 service to SJU and GRU/GIG is, I've been told, being studied by our network planners. LHR, subject to slot allocation/shuffling, could certainly support a daily 777 the way Brits like their Florida vacations. Add in the gate space that just opened up in our Airside 3 along with our maintenance facility there and I think a future MCO 777 base is absolutely feasible. Especially as gate constrained as all our existing hubs will become with 150 more aircraft this year alone.
I think we will grow our presence at MCO with either more 737 positions, a small 777 base, or both. Good luck with your decision!
I think we will grow our presence at MCO with either more 737 positions, a small 777 base, or both. Good luck with your decision!
02-11-2023 | 04:55 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 33
From: 777 CA
You left out IAH. They keep adding CAs on the Guppy and they keep filling. 618 Min level on the latest bid and they keep finding takers. It’s insane. Friday’s snapshot there were 0 unfilled.
02-11-2023 | 08:56 PM
#26
New Hire
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Same question but for someone who is in Vegas what does everybody think the better option is? Will be staying in Vegas. SWA is huge in Vegas but only one plane type. United’s new base will be smaller in Vegas with the same plane as SWA but other types of flying would be nice if willing to commute to LAX/SFO. Just trying to weigh the pros/cons of both. Thanks!
02-11-2023 | 09:05 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,571
Likes: 353
Sorry to add on to OP’s thread. But I’m in a similar situation. Live in Chicago, currently with SWA but still on probation. Just got the Hogan from United. I’m huge on not commuting, so 1st question, how long to hold ORD at UA? 2nd, is there an upside to starting over, as in the potential to recoup the lost time by starting over at UA vs SW. I know I do t even have a decision to make until I do, but my magic 8 ball is currently on the fritz.
You will have 10,000 pilots junior to you at United in 4 more years plus 5,000 retirements in the next decade. That’s pretty good furlough protection.
You have a LOT of choices living in ORD for United. You have one choice at SWA. Fly the 737 as an FO until you can upgrade in 8-10 years.
02-12-2023 | 05:31 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 116
ORD Captain on the 737 is 1 year (because that’s the minimum at United). Every vacancy bid for the last year has had Captain vacancies in ORD. United has 200 787s on order, 450 more 737 MAX and 150 A-321s. One of every 5 Boeing planes coming off the assembly line for the next 8 years are coming to United.
You will have 10,000 pilots junior to you at United in 4 more years plus 5,000 retirements in the next decade. That’s pretty good furlough protection.
You have a LOT of choices living in ORD for United. You have one choice at SWA. Fly the 737 as an FO until you can upgrade in 8-10 years.
You will have 10,000 pilots junior to you at United in 4 more years plus 5,000 retirements in the next decade. That’s pretty good furlough protection.
You have a LOT of choices living in ORD for United. You have one choice at SWA. Fly the 737 as an FO until you can upgrade in 8-10 years.
02-12-2023 | 05:57 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: 737/FO
My two cents…
MCO question - unless you know you want a wide body at some point, I’d stay with SWA. Better work rules at SWA in terms of flexibility to work and earn versus drop and have time off. (Unless UALs next contract hits a homerun for work rules, then it changes the calculus)
ORD question - unless you know all you ever want is 737 and are closer to Midway, I’d jump to UAL. So much progression coming.
Good luck to both of you
MCO question - unless you know you want a wide body at some point, I’d stay with SWA. Better work rules at SWA in terms of flexibility to work and earn versus drop and have time off. (Unless UALs next contract hits a homerun for work rules, then it changes the calculus)
ORD question - unless you know all you ever want is 737 and are closer to Midway, I’d jump to UAL. So much progression coming.
Good luck to both of you
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