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-   United (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/)
-   -   vacancy 23-06V2 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/141882-vacancy-23-06v2.html)

Grumble 03-04-2023 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by JFS 3 (Post 3601777)
Already been said, but in case you missed it (during the entirety of your employment): 1,000 hours of UAL time was never a requirement. Recommend you crack open the UPA.

Funny… I didn’t cite the UPA.

UGAnatty2022 03-04-2023 09:05 AM

I looked at the min-max bulletin from this vacancy and last vacancy. It appears that the unfilled 787 FO seats from the last vacancy, plus retirements, is approximately the same number of the captain seats for this vacancy.
Also, if you are on the 787 in some of the bases, your BES percentage took a turn for the worse (mainly SFO/EWR).

Thor 03-04-2023 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by three1five (Post 3601910)
I think the point I was making is getting missed because I didn’t make it well. What I’m saying is, a regulatory environment which says someone with 500 hrs of time monitoring the autothrottles in an E175 and 500 hrs of IRO time is worthy of a 737 upgrade—but a pilot with 3,000+hrs of command time in [B-2/C-130/B-52/P-8] is not worthy of said upgrade—ought to be looked at. We all know people in both camps who are going to be good captains, but the regulation ought to do a better job of ensuring overall experience.

Also, the 0200-0600 local time FSBs should go away.

You’re suggesting that military bubbas who don’t meet regulatory requirements and don’t have experience in 121 operation or at United should get a quick upgrade?

How many pilots are on the property with only 500 hours of monitoring ERJ throttles or only 500 of IRO time? I don’t follow the equivalency that military flying has to 121 ops. Not to discount potential and ability, but there’s more to airline flying than operating the jet.

Swakid8 03-04-2023 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by three1five (Post 3601910)
I think the point I was making is getting missed because I didn’t make it well. What I’m saying is, a regulatory environment which says someone with 500 hrs of time monitoring the autothrottles in an E175 and 500 hrs of IRO time is worthy of a 737 upgrade—but a pilot with 3,000+hrs of command time in [B-2/C-130/B-52/P-8] is not worthy of said upgrade—ought to be looked at. We all know people in both camps who are going to be good captains, but the regulation ought to do a better job of ensuring overall experience.

Also, the 0200-0600 local time FSBs should go away.

Naw, I believe your comparison isn’t very valid…. Your comparison would be more valid if comparing a
Military a pilot with 3,000+hrs of command time in [B-2/C-130/B-52/P-8] vs a Military pilot whose experience was army rotary wing and went through a quick transition to fixed wing prior to 121 flying….

but to say that someone who has 500 hours of 121 in a regional world and 500 hours as a IRO during international ops in 121 would have a tougher time upgrading and handling the left seat in a 121 operation (Chances are that they will have more 122 time than 1000 hours) vs military bubba whose at their 121 here and got 1000 hours is less capable is a stretch. You might have some form a bias towards military aviators. That’s ok.

SoFloFlyer 03-04-2023 12:02 PM

Thank you!!

threeighteen 03-04-2023 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by three1five (Post 3601829)
My post was making that point. A mil hire is probably gonna be fine. Someone who had 500 hrs in an E175 with autothrottles and fancy tech, and 500 hrs in a 777, and also hasn’t flown an airplane less advanced than a full glass Cirrus—that’s a different set of circumstances. Doesn’t mean they’re not also going to be fine, but the safety net of experience has some gaps in it. Under current FAA rules the mil hire’s time means very little towards upgrade whereas the 500hr regional hire’s time is given significant weight. That’s a disparity that should be looked into.

The mil hire could have come straight from a T-6... in which case the regional hire is more experienced by a factor of 500 hours.

TFAYD 03-04-2023 01:01 PM


Originally Posted by three1five (Post 3601910)
I think the point I was making is getting missed because I didn’t make it well. What I’m saying is, a regulatory environment which says someone with 500 hrs of time monitoring the autothrottles in an E175 and 500 hrs of IRO time is worthy of a 737 upgrade—but a pilot with 3,000+hrs of command time in [B-2/C-130/B-52/P-8] is not worthy of said upgrade—ought to be looked at. We all know people in both camps who are going to be good captains, but the regulation ought to do a better job of ensuring overall experience.

Also, the 0200-0600 local time FSBs should go away.

the main issue is that people don’t want to upgrade. Let’s focus changing that instead of tuning the rules of “worthiness”

ThumbsUp 03-04-2023 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by threeighteen (Post 3602010)
The mil hire could have come straight from a T-6... in which case the regional hire is more experienced by a factor of 500 hours.

That’s probably why it doesn’t count, nor was it the example given.

Otterbox 03-04-2023 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by three1five (Post 3601910)
I think the point I was making is getting missed because I didn’t make it well. What I’m saying is, a regulatory environment which says someone with 500 hrs of time monitoring the autothrottles in an E175 and 500 hrs of IRO time is worthy of a 737 upgrade—but a pilot with 3,000+hrs of command time in [B-2/C-130/B-52/P-8] is not worthy of said upgrade—ought to be looked at. We all know people in both camps who are going to be good captains, but the regulation ought to do a better job of ensuring overall experience.

Also, the 0200-0600 local time FSBs should go away.

Actually, they can… 500hrs military multi-pilot aircraft PIC counts towards FAA 121 FO upgrade requirements… that plus 500 121FO hours are all that’s needed.

three1five 03-04-2023 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by Otterbox (Post 3602098)
Actually, they can… 500hrs military multi-pilot aircraft PIC counts towards FAA 121 FO upgrade requirements… that plus 500 121FO hours are all that’s needed.

Ah, so it does… 121.436(c)… they even included the Osprey. Thank you, learning has occurred.

Doesn’t resolve all concerns but I’ll shut up until the next opportunity to gripe about kids these days and flying enormous traffic patterns in C150s. And 0200-0600 FSBs.


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