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Originally Posted by ugleeual
(Post 3625307)
all the experts have said 3Q23 would be the start…
Consumer still spending Record home equity Consumer balance sheet is holding up Real estate ex west coast housing heating up again Possible new bull market began Oct 22 Inflation has peaked and even though is elevated will continue to drop Unemployment at historical lows ex tech on west coast Bank crisis from last month may have been contained Will there be another black swan? Eventually. However, 2023 is looking a lot better than the “experts” have predicted. Like I said, the most predicted recession in recent memory might mean we end up climbing the wall of worry. |
Originally Posted by RabidW0mbat
(Post 3625092)
In the event of a predicted 2 yr recession as the Fed announced, what do you think United’s response would be? Pause hiring, furlough? I know we can’t answer that definitively, just trying to see where the internet is at.
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Originally Posted by three1five
(Post 3625299)
Ed Bastian’s job is to make people feel good about Delta and its future. His comments in this area are not meaningful/useful to this discussion. He’s paid well to be a Delta optimist. (I hope he’s right though.)
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Originally Posted by CQKSNT
(Post 3625402)
With all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Ed Bastian’s job is not to be a cheerleader. He has to face shareholders every quarter, and if he spouted these types of things as hyperbole he would not have a job for long.
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Originally Posted by RabidW0mbat
(Post 3625068)
Thoughts on UA or any legacy for that matter to withstand the recession the Fed predicted a few days ago? Hiring about to stop? Absorbed due to retirements? Seems like a potential risk to go to the bottom of a seniority list with a faltering economy, or maybe worth it to leave an LCC? Never an easy choice I guess.
If any pilots leave for a LCC they should be automatically ineligible for rehire. A friend left United for FedEx and called last week to see if I though United would rehire him, even though he has given up 4,000 seniority numbers in the 18 months or so since he left. |
Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot
(Post 3625422)
We had a recession last year in 2022. The 1st and 2nd quarters were negative GDP growth. United hired like crazy. Travel is booming and even though the overall economy might contract, United is replacing 400 RJs with mainline planes and we need to hire for years still. Pilots being hired today will have 10,000 pilots junior to them in 4 years. This doesn’t even include the 100-200 787s on order, of which only about 40 are to replace 767s.
If any pilots leave for a LCC they should be automatically ineligible for rehire. A friend left United for FedEx and called last week to see if I though United would rehire him, even though he has given up 4,000 seniority numbers in the 18 months or so since he left. |
Originally Posted by bababouey
(Post 3625427)
didn’t the White House change the definition of a recession? What would one actually look like nowadays?
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Originally Posted by DJIA
(Post 3625353)
Experts have been calling for recession since the market slipped into a bear market starting in Jan 2022. Remember the “changed definition” of the term “recession” last summer? It has been a very politically charged term now thrown around loosely. Reality is:
Consumer still spending Record home equity Consumer balance sheet is holding up Real estate ex west coast housing heating up again Possible new bull market began Oct 22 Inflation has peaked and even though is elevated will continue to drop Unemployment at historical lows ex tech on west coast Bank crisis from last month may have been contained Will there be another black swan? Eventually. However, 2023 is looking a lot better than the “experts” have predicted. Like I said, the most predicted recession in recent memory might mean we end up climbing the wall of worry. It's not. And while this isn't the place and I don't have a lot of time, here are a few very basic thoughts that could inform not just current conditions, but future trend as well: "Consumer still spending" & Record home equity" Yes, but with borrowed money From the FED, see https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc (and there are MANY more sources) "Household Debt Rises to $16.90 Trillion; Credit Cards Pass Pre-Pandemic High Total household debt rose by $394 billion, or 2.4 percent, to $16.90 trillion in the fourth quarter of 2022, according to the latest Quarterly Report on Household Debt and Credit. Credit card balances increased by $61 billion to reach $986 billion, surpassing the pre-pandemic high of $927 billion; mortgage balances rose to $11.92 trillion, auto loan balances to $1.55 trillion, and student loan balances to $1.60 trillion. The share of current debt transitioning into delinquency increased for nearly all debt types . "Consumer balance sheet is holding up" Again, see above. I'm not sure what you're definition of "holding up" is, but it's different than mine. "Real estate ex west coast housing heating up again" First of all, a R.E. market that is 'heating up' does not necessarily portend good outcomes. From a big picture perspective, a market that is heating up into increasing delinquency rates and record-high debt levels should invoke concern and caution. https://www.mpamag.com/us/mortgage-i...a%20year%20ago. "Possible new bull market began Oct 22" Possible, but not likely. My most expensive 2 newsletters deal with 'Distressed Debt', and while I can't share their proprietary data, it pains a less-rosy future for stocks in the near-medium term. Here's a couple generic ideas though: S&P Global Ratings Credit Research & Insights expects the U.S. trailing-12-month speculative-grade corporate default rate to reach 4% by December 2023, from 1.7% in December 2022 (see chart 1). This base-case scenario is more than double the current default rate and just shy of the 4.1% long-term average.Feb 16, 2023 see https://www.spglobal.com/ratings/en/...term%20average. https://www.yahoo.com/video/huge-num...ie%20companies. "Inflation has peaked and even though is elevated will continue to drop" I assume you're referring to the headline CPI numbers. First know that the CPI formula (under all administrations regardless of political party in power) has been changed 25 times since Reagan was President (and the Bureau of Labor Statistics which publishes it has recently indicated that they're currently considering changing it again). Each and every change has resulted in a LOWER reported result. Hmmm. Having said that, any inflation level above 1.5-2.0% is very hurtful to banks, consumer spending, and many industries. I believe this inflation story is far from over personally. "Unemployment at historical lows ex tech on west coast" I would add the word "reported" to the front of your statement...as again, the definitions have changed over the past 3 years. And while true, these numbers have no where to go but up. "Bank crisis from last month may have been contained" Emphasis on 'may'. There are differing opinions on this of course, but the old adage that "the FED will hike rates until something 'breaks' has proven true", and something (Banking) has broken. And the concept that it may have been contained ignores the extraordinary measures that have been taken so far to try to prevent further spreading, and the cost of those measure MUST be taken into account when deciding if things are truly contained. And the cost is extremely high and is being ignored by the press and the public...and judging from your statement, by you as well. https://mises.org/wire/no-financial-crisis-not-over In summary, you may be right, but count me among those who aren't so sure. And we don't have the time to discuss the many issues potentially affecting this discussion, that you did not mention. But, I truly hope you're right. |
Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot
(Post 3625422)
We had a recession last year in 2022. The 1st and 2nd quarters were negative GDP growth. United hired like crazy. Travel is booming and even though the overall economy might contract, United is replacing 400 RJs with mainline planes and we need to hire for years still. Pilots being hired today will have 10,000 pilots junior to them in 4 years. This doesn’t even include the 100-200 787s on order, of which only about 40 are to replace 767s.
If any pilots leave for a LCC they should be automatically ineligible for rehire. A friend left United for FedEx and called last week to see if I though United would rehire him, even though he has given up 4,000 seniority numbers in the 18 months or so since he left. |
Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot
(Post 3625422)
If any pilots leave for a LCC they should be automatically ineligible for rehire. A friend left United for FedEx and called last week to see if I though United would rehire him, even though he has given up 4,000 seniority numbers in the 18 months or so since he left.
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