Brickfire

They are forcing ASAP upgrades on new hires

hummingbear

First thing I looked at. Language is not good. Really didn’t think they were going to go there.

ugleeual

Not sure why the angst… we fly they manage. If they want to assume the risk, if any, of a new hire flying on a NB as a low time Captain then let them. Most, if not all, are coming with lots of left seat time and any stragglers will be weeded out during the 100 hour OE.

500RVR

Because this airline/industry is an accident waiting to happen. ALPO just sold out on safety.

DarkSideMoon

The regionals have been doing it with first time ever captains and first time ever jet pilots for almost a decade now and the sky hasn’t fallen. They’re also flying into higher risk airports with more difficult airplanes with pretty much 0 resources to help during an emergency or IROPS.


It’s going to be ok as long as the instructors and LCP’s continue doing their jobs.

744ButtonPusher

well it’s a good thing the overide got way better because I can’t imagine a lot of LCPs would want to babysit new hire captains for 100hrs of OE

prex8390

Wait until you see who is upgrading at regionals. Least most people coming here have sat in the left seat before. A lot of which for 4+ years.

Long Haul

Although I agree that forcing pilots who don't want to become Captains to upgrade is generally a bad idea, a strategy UA can utilize is to fill their classes with pilots who do want to. That may be happening already. Small sample size, but I interviewed recently, and everyone in my group had enough hours and experience to sit in the left seat. There were even two current 777 captains among us, and no regional pilots. If I'm fortunate enough to get a CJO I'll bid CA as soon as I can, and getting it on day one would be a dream come true.

hummingbear

First off, responding to a PR mess is “we fly, they manage”. Deciding whether you personally are going to sign your name to a contract that allows forced street captains is very much in your control.

We just had a relatively experienced crew almost turn a 777 into a submarine. This job is a lot more than just flipping switches & the attitude that anyone w/ a wet ATP can do it is reckless, in my opinion. It’s very possible that NBCA would go junior in new hire classes for the same reasons WBFO often does. So while yes, we do have some very experienced new hires, our age-based seniority system would more likely push those seats onto the youngest, and therefore often least experienced in each class.

We’re currently fighting the FAA on the safety of SkyWest trying to use 135 mins on certain city pairs, & yet we’re somehow ok with forcing a probationary pilot into a command position who didn’t explicitly ask for the responsibility? Explain that logic to me.

As early as next year, we could have crews with less than 4K hours, 8 months on property, & 50 years of age between the two of them flying into BOG in bad weather at night. I wouldn’t want my family on that plane & I don’t particularly want anyone else’s. And if- heaven forbid- that flight does become the worst case scenario, I doubt the fact that the CA had 100 hours of IOE will provide much reassurance to the flying public or protect us from the doo-do storm to follow; not to mention the far graver human tragedy. There are just so many better ways to address this issue it really surprises me we’re even considering this one.

hummingbear

I’ll play the odds & guess those 777 CAs were at the upper age range. That would put them at the top seniority in their new hire class, which also means they get first pick on choosing their BES. It’s the young guys in each group who get stuck with the leftovers. Even if we may hire a lot of very experienced candidates, those guys, in general, are not the ones getting last pick in BI- see the problem?

I have no issue with giving an experienced guy w/ logbooks full of WB crossings the opportunity to choose NBCA; but that’s very different from telling the 24YO 8ball in that same class that he has to take it.