Very professional with value added to the conversation….

You are missing the point that being junior sucks under the current contract so FOs don’t upgrade. That’s leverage to force the company to improve the rules which they did to an extent. 8 year captains are still on reserve getting hammered. 10 years probably lifts you to a line but it’s ANF/dayovers. Granted the 25 year guys would have it cushy as a captain.

The union and Kirby have both publicly said that unfilled Captain slots are the biggest motivator to get a deal done. Heck the union even had a billboard near the TK that said “No captains, no United Next.”

I didn't use the word 'idiot'.

I'm fully aware of the delivery schedule, the United Next plan, and the need for Captains. I think you're making a lot of assumptions and drawing self serving conclusions. Do you really think the company doesn't have other options/plans they're willing to go with? How far are you willing to go to find out? Do you think they won't cut off their nose to spite their face?

I'll close with 2 observations. First, your adversary ALWAYS has a vote. Second, in negotiations (life in general) of this scale you NEVER have anyone 'over the barrel'.

You didn’t - someone further up did. Doing a multi-quote on this forum on an iPhone is more complicated than a 737 bleed panel…

No I don’t think the company will cut its nose to spite its face. I think they will make logical, quantitative-based decisions. Their goal is to keep minimizing labor costs until it becomes too “costly” to do so - attrition, unfilled new hire slots, unfilled Captain vacancies, etc.

Yes our demands do have a limit (and I don’t think we are near them). If they had given us Delta’s contract verbatim I think it would have passed and they’d fill Captain classes.

Please think before you start a thread with a run-on paragraph.

Thank you.

Parked by a mediator? Highly doubt it.

Is this because if we had Delta's contract we would lose the bulk of our international flying to JV partnerships like their contract allows? What else in Delta's contract could possibly entice our senior WB FOs to move to NB CA?

I agree with you, Ace. Besides the ad hominem attacks, these Yes Vote arguments sound a lot like the scope giveaway points from the past. Personally, there is no gain worth the exchange of forcing captain on the junior United pilot. And this is possibly my last contract, it's not about the money, it's just a line in my professional sand.

YES That is correct.I was in sim back in november but i was hired well before that.I got extremely ill after indoc and was out for almost 2 months. I am off probation now and fully eligible to vote,cast mine last night.

The realities that aren’t being comprehended because they FEEL like it should be different.

They think seniority should be equitable from Junior to Senior …… not gunna happen in a seniority system.
They think that because they don’t have weekends off is just totally unfair man - as a half winger
They tout QOL over pay yet single out that we matched DAL’s pay rate and some have spouted 40% or more OVER should be a must have.
I have seen blank stares when I have brought up JV language and how our Scope is far ahead of the competition. ( I usually just ask them to count the widebody airframes and it slowly sinks in).
Out of 23 MEC votes 18 were in the affirmative.


The simple fact that the ones that are screaming the loudest on social media are a tiny fraction of the pilot group at large.


I will sit down with the Mrs. and go over the pluses and minuses of this TA and decide on the total package that is the TA and vote accordingly.