I suggest taking the time the time to read the message dated Nov 13.

 

I don’t know how anyone paying attention to how the company was negotiating UPA23, the LCAL money, or unilaterally revoking the covid LOA thinks this is surprising at all.

I’m happy with our deal but it was pretty apparent to me that the Oscar sunshine and rainbows phase was over.

 

I find these latest examples of “discipline” as a serious threat to Captains authority. Be careful out there and take your time.

 

Whatever he is referring to sounds horrible, but also vague. Can anyone speak to, in general details (to protect those involved) what happened? Ie, what could possibly go so wrong to be in this type of situation and how does one avoid it?

the part about one example being in FSAP concerned me as well...

 

We are fast becoming like Great Lakes!?!? This message is very concerning!!!

 

I don't know what happened, but on the forums someone from the ERC said United had been notified of whatever this (or these) incidents were outside of the FSAP process. Apparently the incident was severe enough it isn't covered by the FSAP MOU. It was implied the FAA may also be involved in whatever it was.

 

the union is doing what it should do and telling our crews to be vigilant during this chaotic growth period.

I gurantee there is ALOT more to these vague stories. These pilots most likely were not out just doing their job.

 

Just because an FSAP was filed doesn’t necessarily mean the event was sole source or self disclosed. Program was never designed to be a get out of jail free card after other entities became aware of the incident. For example, if you go out and cause a runway incursion and get a pilot deviation you can’t just file an FSAP and the whole thing automatically goes away. They just can’t use the content of the FSAP against you and your self disclosure may cause the powers that be to let the ERC counsel you instead of turning it in to a bigger deal. No idea the specifics on this event but the fact that one example being in an FSAP isn’t surprising or necessarily egregious to me.

 

I have some experience as a neutral party during discipline issues. I have never seen an innocent party treated as a scape goat. What I have seen is the union empowering a pilot to act like a petulant child after they have done something wrong (told a clearly racist joke in public, physically intimidated a gate agent, lied about expenses, etc). The pilot will plead the fifth, act as though it’s not a big deal or generally act as though they are a defendant in a criminal case and the burden is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. What they don’t understand is that if the company is bringing you in for an interview, they already know what happened and are assessing how you FEEL about the situation, not if you actually did it. The pilots also fail to realize that the union reps have ego/pride involved in the hearing and may not always give you advice that will get you back on line with the minimum consequence.

Long story short, I have never seen a pilot who came in and said: “I don’t know where my head was, that will never happen again” have the book thrown at them. But I definitely have seen pilots who fought things, despite being in the wrong, receive an unreasonable consequence that they then had to appeal and try and reduce. And very rarely do the months of bureaucratic appeal time end up being paid.

YMMV

 

So in this woke environment, you are guilty until proven Democrat……I mean innocent. I understand this is not a “court of law” but rather employee/employer relations. But saying the Company already “knows” the alleged story without hearing both sides of the argument is a dangerous position to be in. My take is stay off the internet/SM, stay off the PA other than required announcements, know the UPA and take your time/be vigilant.