Originally Posted by 11atsomto (Post 3841266)

If you really read FAR 117 carefully......and I will contend many people have not and that's okay. However many will be surprised to find out that a crew extending or NOT extending is actually a Captain/PIC decision. Now as a matter of good CRM and maintaining a good reputation most Captains will/should gauge the opinions of thier FOs/IRO's but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.

If a FO or IRO does not wish to extend and the Captain does, their only option is to call out fatigued, or call Pro Standards or something.

I certainly don't agree with this but it is what it is. Some may say what's the difference. The difference is that a fatigue has two possible outcomes: APPROVED or NOT APPROVED. where as a FAR 117 non Extension is an outcome all in to itself.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3841270)

Uh... you better fact check that.

Both pilots have to certify they are not fatigued before every flight. A captain cannot order an FO to fly and cannot accept an extension for an FO.

Originally Posted by 11atsomto (Post 3841276)

Thats fit for duty, not an FAR extension.

Originally Posted by 11atsomto (Post 3841276)

Thats fit for duty, not an FAR extension.

FAR 117.19 for reference

Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 3841286)

Each crewmember must agree to the extension.

FOM 1.50.8 for reference.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3841278)

So if you don't certify fit for for duty then you're not accepting an extension... get it?
Do you even airline bro?

Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 3841286)

Each crewmember must agree to the extension.

FOM 1.50.8 for reference.

Originally Posted by 11atsomto (Post 3841310)

Great strategy......provided if you are not already taxing during an extended tarmac delay

For augmented and unaugmented operations, if unforeseen operational circumstances arise prior to takeoff:

(1) The pilot in command and the certificate holder may extend the maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part up to 2 hours. The pilot in command and the certificate holder may also extend the maximum combined flight duty period and reserve availability periodlimits specified in § 117.21(c)(3) and (4) of this part up to 2 hours.

.......and the PIC must concur
Luckily our company appears to have more restrictive language in the FOM as you referenced although.....but the actual language from the FAA above doesn't mention crew member, it just mentions PIC.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville (Post 3841320)

Well now the situation changes to taxi because you were wrong in your previous example.

So you'll accept an extension during taxi and tell your FO tough crap you're going? You must be on a lot of bid avoid lists.

Just admit you were wrong and move on dude. You look foolish defending a bad position. What is it with pilots who are incapable of admitting they were wrong? Terrible quality in a pilot and leader.

Originally Posted by 11atsomto;[url=tel:3841384

3841384]For the record I am more of a NOT extending but I would make exceptions on occasions.

I will admit I hadn't looked at the more restrictive language in the FOM......all I really was saying (a few posts up) is that very few people are aware of the exact language of FAR 117 when it comes to extensions. I cut and pasted the exact language and I think the words speak for themselves.

I certainly wasn't aware when (at a previous carier not protected by more company restrictive FOM language) a smart acss captain pointed out to me that if he wanted to he could say I was extending........