Council 34 S/T Report, 7/6/2010
07-20-2010, 06:18 AM
#31
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Le Bus
Posts: 382
Special MEC Update, Tuesday, July 20, 2010
As reported in the July 15 MEC Update and the UAL Negotiating Committee Update last week, dialogue resumed between the managements of United and Continental and the Joint Negotiating Committee in an effort to complete the stalled Transition and Process Agreement negotiations. This dialogue resulted in both Continental and United managements re-engaging their respective counterparts on the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and work began on resolving each party’s unresolved items and developing proposed resolutions. These exchanges continued throughout the day on Friday, July 16.
By late on Friday evening, both the managements of Continental and United were close to an “Agreement in Principle” concerning the Transition and Process Agreement with both the Continental ALPA and United ALPA portions of the JNC. While this is a significant milestone in moving the merger process forward, the “Agreement in Principle” must translate into a final agreement and this process is not complete until all parties have a signed agreement. An Agreement in Principle outlines the overall concepts that resolves the outstanding issues but does not yet contain the final language of the agreement. The UAL Joint Negotiating Committee members spent the remainder of the weekend reviewing the Company’s proposal and preparing responses.
All members of the ALPA JNC assembled on Monday and continued the process and passed proposals to the Company throughout the day on Monday. Both the JNC and Company will continue to finalize the Transition and Process Agreement. We are hopeful that these meetings will produce a final agreement this week.
Once the Transition and Process Agreement is finalized, per the UAL-MEC policy manual, the agreement will be presented to the MEC for consideration following a minimum seven day period. At the completion of this period, the UAL-MEC will vote on whether to ratify the agreement. If the agreement is ratified by the MEC, the agreement will be made available to all pilots and the JNC will begin negotiations on the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). We know that there is significant interest in the details and proceedings concerning this process and all details will be presented as soon as the process is complete.
As reported in the July 15 MEC Update and the UAL Negotiating Committee Update last week, dialogue resumed between the managements of United and Continental and the Joint Negotiating Committee in an effort to complete the stalled Transition and Process Agreement negotiations. This dialogue resulted in both Continental and United managements re-engaging their respective counterparts on the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and work began on resolving each party’s unresolved items and developing proposed resolutions. These exchanges continued throughout the day on Friday, July 16.
By late on Friday evening, both the managements of Continental and United were close to an “Agreement in Principle” concerning the Transition and Process Agreement with both the Continental ALPA and United ALPA portions of the JNC. While this is a significant milestone in moving the merger process forward, the “Agreement in Principle” must translate into a final agreement and this process is not complete until all parties have a signed agreement. An Agreement in Principle outlines the overall concepts that resolves the outstanding issues but does not yet contain the final language of the agreement. The UAL Joint Negotiating Committee members spent the remainder of the weekend reviewing the Company’s proposal and preparing responses.
All members of the ALPA JNC assembled on Monday and continued the process and passed proposals to the Company throughout the day on Monday. Both the JNC and Company will continue to finalize the Transition and Process Agreement. We are hopeful that these meetings will produce a final agreement this week.
Once the Transition and Process Agreement is finalized, per the UAL-MEC policy manual, the agreement will be presented to the MEC for consideration following a minimum seven day period. At the completion of this period, the UAL-MEC will vote on whether to ratify the agreement. If the agreement is ratified by the MEC, the agreement will be made available to all pilots and the JNC will begin negotiations on the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). We know that there is significant interest in the details and proceedings concerning this process and all details will be presented as soon as the process is complete.
07-20-2010, 09:34 AM
#32
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by LifeNtheFstLne
3.) The 787 will be operated as a separate fleet but a common type
.
.
Thanks in advance and look forward to our new merged airline growing for all of us to prosper.
L
07-20-2010, 11:05 AM
#33
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
SOTeric.....
Thanx for the post from your Camp. We don't see what you guys get from your MEC, so reading it on here is just about all we 'see' from the 'other-side'. We got this today.....a lot of the same, but none-the-less, what's 'new' on the CAL side of the Camp. Keep the info coming.....
Cheers....SC
Thanx for the post from your Camp. We don't see what you guys get from your MEC, so reading it on here is just about all we 'see' from the 'other-side'. We got this today.....a lot of the same, but none-the-less, what's 'new' on the CAL side of the Camp. Keep the info coming.....
Cheers....SC
147 Pilots On The Street
July 20, 2010
AGREEMENT IN PRINCIPLE REACHED ON TRANSITION AND PROCESS AGREEMENT I am pleased to announce that after numerous weeks of preparation, negotiating, starts, stops and stalls we have successfully reached an agreement in principle for a Transition and Process Agreement. The Joint Negotiating Committee will continue to work with their management counterparts on language to finalize this document into a Tentative Agreement. The Agreement will then be presented to both the CAL and UAL MECs for their independent consideration.
There are still potential pitfalls that could occur as we finalize the language and get it ready to present to the MEC. We are hopeful that this process can be completed in the next few days.
Since the announcement of the merger with UAL we have stressed the importance of establishing an orderly and systematic approach for conducting the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations and the necessity of establishing certain rules under which we will operate as we complete those negotiations. We have been adamant that this agreement was important not only for the protections and protocols established, but also because this agreement serves as a gateway to the next step in the process- the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement.
I would like to recognize the leadership role that the CAL MEC and UAL MEC portions of the Joint Negotiating Committee took in navigating the path to a resolution. Their persistence and innovation were key to overcoming the complexity of negotiating with multiple management teams carrying different agendas to the table.
We will provide more information as the negotiations process moves forward.
One Union, One Voice
Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman
There are still potential pitfalls that could occur as we finalize the language and get it ready to present to the MEC. We are hopeful that this process can be completed in the next few days.
Since the announcement of the merger with UAL we have stressed the importance of establishing an orderly and systematic approach for conducting the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement negotiations and the necessity of establishing certain rules under which we will operate as we complete those negotiations. We have been adamant that this agreement was important not only for the protections and protocols established, but also because this agreement serves as a gateway to the next step in the process- the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement.
I would like to recognize the leadership role that the CAL MEC and UAL MEC portions of the Joint Negotiating Committee took in navigating the path to a resolution. Their persistence and innovation were key to overcoming the complexity of negotiating with multiple management teams carrying different agendas to the table.
We will provide more information as the negotiations process moves forward.
One Union, One Voice
Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman
07-20-2010, 11:22 AM
#34
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by Lambourne
Can you expand on this? Common type rating? If doe you mean, common type to the B777?
Thanks in advance and look forward to our new merged airline growing for all of us to prosper.
L
Thanks in advance and look forward to our new merged airline growing for all of us to prosper.
L
Can't say for sure on this rumor, but I'll take a stab at what I THINK Lifeinthefastlane was saying.....
IE: DAL operates the B767-400 as a 'seperate fleet' from the B767ER and B757, but the aircraft type on our certificates obviously reads B757/767.
Just a guess, but if the fed's sign off on a B777/787 common type when the a/c hits the line, the "New UAL" may operate the B787 seperatly from the B777 guys similar to how DAL does on the B767-400?? Best guess at what he's trying to say??
Again, the topic is ALL RUMOR from what I have heard to date. We shall see how it shakes down when it's painted up & rolling down the runway flying revenue!
07-20-2010, 02:58 PM
#35
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 638
I'm going to say that they'll be flying 787s on both CAL and UA certificates before the merger is completed both regulatory and with the pilot union. So until the 121 certificate is merged and the pilots are under one list, they'll have 2 fleets of 787s for UA and CAL. It probably won't mean much for the pilots except that each pilot group would be bidding for their portion of the airplanes instead of the entire fleet. For now.
07-20-2010, 04:28 PM
#36
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Posts: 230
Originally Posted by iPilot
I'm going to say that they'll be flying 787s on both CAL and UA certificates before the merger is completed both regulatory and with the pilot union. So until the 121 certificate is merged and the pilots are under one list, they'll have 2 fleets of 787s for UA and CAL. It probably won't mean much for the pilots except that each pilot group would be bidding for their portion of the airplanes instead of the entire fleet. For now.
Simply put, this should not be a Frank Lorenzo transfer of assets.
07-20-2010, 05:51 PM
#37
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by Fritzthepilot
We are not getting 787's at UAL until 2016 at the earliest. The frames coming before that are CAL's and they should fly them until the merger is fully completed and the integrated seniority allows equipment bids. Whenever that will be.
Simply put, this should not be a Frank Lorenzo transfer of assets.
Simply put, this should not be a Frank Lorenzo transfer of assets.
Good news for the New UAL is that there are some of the B787 off CAL's order coming within the year - early 2011 (a$$uming Boeing keeps it on track), and then UAL's B787 orders in 2016 will also do the new carrier very nicely w/ more B787 being added to the fleet.
CAL's present SCOPE dictates that ALL it's a/c orders prior to "MAY 3rd" will be flown by CAL pilots, on CAL block hours till such time the single certificate is given by the government (Merger Complete). Until then, CAL's SCOPE prevents the flying & airframes to be shifted until the entire deal is done....ie ONE certificate.
07-20-2010, 06:39 PM
#38
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My guess is a fence type agreement ala Delta.
CAL's 787's will be fenced for a short duration, (see 2 years) as will UAL's 747-400's.
The rest of the system will be up for bids based on vacancies.
CAL's 787's will be fenced for a short duration, (see 2 years) as will UAL's 747-400's.
The rest of the system will be up for bids based on vacancies.
07-21-2010, 07:10 AM
#39
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 786
Originally Posted by Lambourne
Can you expand on this? Common type rating? If doe you mean, common type to the B777?
Thanks in advance and look forward to our new merged airline growing for all of us to prosper.
L
Thanks in advance and look forward to our new merged airline growing for all of us to prosper.
L
For the purposes of staffing and bidding however, the airline will consider it a new but separate sub-base. That to me means the assignment of an assistant chief pilot specific to the 787. A few new management people. More importantly it may trigger some contract language that addresses new sub bases and new equipment.
07-21-2010, 10:35 AM
#40
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Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Originally Posted by Captain Bligh
What I get out of this is that it looks like a pilot's type certificate will say B-777/B-787, so the 777 training department will have to pick up 787 training with differences.
For the purposes of staffing and bidding however, the airline will consider it a new but separate sub-base. That to me means the assignment of an assistant chief pilot specific to the 787. A few new management people. More importantly it may trigger some contract language that addresses new sub bases and new equipment.
For the purposes of staffing and bidding however, the airline will consider it a new but separate sub-base. That to me means the assignment of an assistant chief pilot specific to the 787. A few new management people. More importantly it may trigger some contract language that addresses new sub bases and new equipment.
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