skypest

It was not the United Pilots contract that put United into bankruptcy.

Bankruptcy was strategic and opportunistic on the companies part (have you not seen the interviews with the companies attorneys?) with the gutting of the employee contracts/pensions an added bonus.

While the pay rates of C2000 may not be achieved through the current negotiations; I fully expect all previous work rule and overrides to be restored.

I personally have no wish to be "The Highest Paid" in the industry. Just very close to that.

skiddmark

Definitely a want-to-be! Had a neighbor just like him...always telling me what is wrong with the airline industry. My neighbor threw bags for Delta when he was in high school so that made him an expert. Now he is a real estate broker that just lost his house due to foreclosure. I wouldn't believe anything JetDaily has to say.
Just my humble opinion....

oncea57cap

Merger may have hit a slight bump in the road. UAUA to go lower from here, maybe the entire market. Stay tuned.

SONORA PASS

Thanks for the PIREP. Is it light chop being reported, or should we sit everybody down?

By the way - What sector did that report come from?

SP

dosbo

Care to expand on your thought process? Just wondering what I'm missing.

Captain Bligh

meanwhile, I've selected "turb" and continuous ignition.

krudawg

You got that right!

krudawg

Sounds like you are quoting Karl Marx. I certainly don't agree with the post you are replying to but your arguement is more a statement about anti-capitalism than a statement about why the guy is barking at the wrong tree. UAL managemnt would certainly like to make the pilot's think their high wages tanked the airline but the truth is that many bad decisions were made coupled with the looting of the corporate treasury by upper management. at the very least UAL has always been management "top-heavy" and even Glen Tilton recognized that but cutting management staff considerably.

Captain Bligh

As a "not yet" UAL pilot, I've wanted to ask this question for years. In fact I did ask so rhetorically (to myself), but never had the cahones to ask a UAL pilot. First off, I know all about the "you had to die, quit or retire" scenario concerning ESOP ownership cash outs. At my here and now place in life however; if my stock compensation was worth 8-10 times my annual earnings and I could have taken a step back and looked at what I was making vs. what the rest of the industry was making... well you know where I'm going with this. What an impossible decision to make. Am I a stock holder with an interest in profitability? or am I a blue collar unionist with a vested interest in wages? What an unfair, diametrically opposed choice to have to make. The capitalist in me says take the money and run, but the pilot in me says stay in the cockpit. Ya'll owned stock but didn't act like stock holders.

I'm not legitimizing Gene and the DIP financier's claims that wages bankrupt the airline - God knows there were many other factors.

What would have happened however if all the UAL pilots with an ESOP position, via ALPA, would have gone to management in the late 90's and said, "We want to outsource our cockpit jobs for 20 cents on the dollar, but we still want to be manager owners"?

Monkeyfly

You might have to rephrase that question, Bligh...

If you mean why did we give away RJ flying, the line from management back then was, "why buy RJs when we can spend the money on 777s?"

And in fact, at one time our 777s in fleet + orders + options was 100 777 planes. However it was short-sighted of us to give up a section of our airline, and it came back to bite us. However, it would now be short-sighted of management to expect that a stung pilot group(UAL) + a group that held on to thier scope(CAL) to ever fold on this.