Longevity
08-18-2010 | 11:08 AM
#21
Ben Salley
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Left
1) I am not led to believe anything. I just read it verbatim from the DAL/NWA SLI award.....page 28..
"Summarizing, based on the record in its entirety, we conclude a four-category list, constructed on a Status and Category/Ratio basis, will properly respond to the demands of fairness and equity in the context of these particular facts."
2) If you think "Not all pilots consider super-long haul on the 777 desirable" will affect the sli, you are mistaken. That is comical.
3) <<CAL NB's pay more than UAL WB's, in most cases, anyway. The whole equipment argument is based on the premise that larger a/c pay better rates; not the case in this merger.>>
Where do you come up with this stuff? the Facts are: UAL's w/b rates are $190/132 per hr. That is $-3/-2 or a whopping 1.5% less than CALs w/b rates. The difference is UAL has WAAAY more w/b's than CAL, thus more guys earning those rates. CAL's n/b rates are nowhere near $190/132.
"Summarizing, based on the record in its entirety, we conclude a four-category list, constructed on a Status and Category/Ratio basis, will properly respond to the demands of fairness and equity in the context of these particular facts."
2) If you think "Not all pilots consider super-long haul on the 777 desirable" will affect the sli, you are mistaken. That is comical.
3) <<CAL NB's pay more than UAL WB's, in most cases, anyway. The whole equipment argument is based on the premise that larger a/c pay better rates; not the case in this merger.>>
Where do you come up with this stuff? the Facts are: UAL's w/b rates are $190/132 per hr. That is $-3/-2 or a whopping 1.5% less than CALs w/b rates. The difference is UAL has WAAAY more w/b's than CAL, thus more guys earning those rates. CAL's n/b rates are nowhere near $190/132.
08-18-2010 | 11:51 AM
#22
Widebody
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
From: 777 CAP
08-18-2010 | 01:21 PM
#24
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 0
From: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
You are correct, UAL "HAS" no 70 seater's.....but there's A LOT of 70 seater's that have UAL painted on the side which is a direct result putting 1400+ UAL guys/gals on the street.....True statement.
Said it in the first page of this thread.....to attempt to 'discuss' (or as it's become, 'banter') this topic is pointless. Up to this point, there has been a few 'good' points by some, but this thread is surely (yes, Shirley) on it's way to being the 'slow train to no where' in the productivity department.
Did I mention 'pointless'
Said it in the first page of this thread.....to attempt to 'discuss' (or as it's become, 'banter') this topic is pointless. Up to this point, there has been a few 'good' points by some, but this thread is surely (yes, Shirley) on it's way to being the 'slow train to no where' in the productivity department.
Did I mention 'pointless'
08-18-2010 | 03:14 PM
#25
New Hire
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
I don't even get involved in Seniority integration talks with any pilot for the simple fact that:
1. I have no say at the table
2. I have no VOTE on the outcome
3. An arbitrator will be making the final decision.
I'm serious when I say I do not spend time thinking about the SLI process and where I will fall on the list. There is not one thing I can do about it, and an arbitrator can decided to do whatever he/she wants. So, to me, even discussions about this topic are a waste of time as no two people will ever agree on how it should be and what should be taken into account.
1. I have no say at the table
2. I have no VOTE on the outcome
3. An arbitrator will be making the final decision.
I'm serious when I say I do not spend time thinking about the SLI process and where I will fall on the list. There is not one thing I can do about it, and an arbitrator can decided to do whatever he/she wants. So, to me, even discussions about this topic are a waste of time as no two people will ever agree on how it should be and what should be taken into account.
Shannon
08-18-2010 | 03:28 PM
#26
Widebody
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
From: 777 CAP
Fine!
Fine, wimps! 
Just trying to spread some understanding of where each pilot group was coming from. I guess we'll wait until after to start complaining to each other. And we'll all be ignorant as to what the rationale was...
"Monkeyfly squawk 2000"
Just trying to spread some understanding of where each pilot group was coming from. I guess we'll wait until after to start complaining to each other. And we'll all be ignorant as to what the rationale was...
"Monkeyfly squawk 2000"
08-18-2010 | 07:12 PM
#27
Ben Salley
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Left
Not at all. UAL does fly lots of 777's and lot's of 70 seat rj's. Problem is, you want CAL pilots to subsidize your rj problem with our seniority. BTW, you've got over 1,440 furloughees. Since this is the case, Now we have to counter your exotic new form of SLI. Anyone who is not getting a paycheck is negotiating "Seniority Derivatives". The "Speculation" of what a furloughees seniority is worth vice a man with a paycheck in his hand is ludicrous.
08-18-2010 | 10:40 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
From: Le Bus
Not at all. UAL does fly lots of 777's and lot's of 70 seat rj's. Problem is, you want CAL pilots to subsidize your rj problem with our seniority. BTW, you've got over 1,440 furloughees. Since this is the case, Now we have to counter your exotic new form of SLI. Anyone who is not getting a paycheck is negotiating "Seniority Derivatives". The "Speculation" of what a furloughees seniority is worth vice a man with a paycheck in his hand is ludicrous.
08-18-2010 | 10:56 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
08-19-2010 | 12:47 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
From: 777, sofa
3) <<CAL NB's pay more than UAL WB's, in most cases, anyway. The whole equipment argument is based on the premise that larger a/c pay better rates; not the case in this merger.>>
Where do you come up with this stuff? the Facts are: UAL's w/b rates are $190/132 per hr. That is $-3/-2 or a whopping 1.5% less than CALs w/b rates. The difference is UAL has WAAAY more w/b's than CAL, thus more guys earning those rates. CAL's n/b rates are nowhere near $190/132.
UAL has 78 aircraft paying max rate of 190/130,
CAL has 48 aircraft paying max rate of 193/132.
UAL has 132 aircraft paying max rate of 159/109
CAL has 221 aircraft paying max rate of 169/116
UAL has 152 aircraft paying max rate of 137/94
CAL has 76 aircraft paying max rate of 150/102
(CAL 737 Fleet average (2/3 LN, 1/3SN) 162/111)
of those
UAL has 35 767s in the middle pay band
CAL has 26 767s paying the top rate,
Short call reserve at CAL puts their 737-500 drivers ahead of UAL's 767 drivers in terms of guarantee.
UAL has 40% more aircraft @ the WB rate,
and 100% more aircraft at the SN rate.
Whereas CAL has 60% more 'middle class' aircraft.
UAL has a larger 'upper class', and a much larger 'lower class'.
But CAL's 'lower class' make almost the same as UAL's middle class.
(only about $3-400/month less on guarantee)
Given that CAL's pilots are cross utilized on small and large 737s, it certainly appears that almost all CAL drivers make as much as or more than UALs 767 drivers.
Or in other words, all CAL pilots have a better pay rate than 79% of UAL pilots.
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