Lambourne

Did anyone else read the NPRM and delve into the tables? If I read it correctly the bunkie would be lost on almost all euro flying to and from IAD. Hope I am wrongly interpretating the charts.

If this is true I hope our JCBA can work to protect the benefits of augmented flying. The safety of the third pilot is key in foreign operations and the early body clock departures from europe are fatiguing.

What is a major concern is if we were to have a JCBA that sold the relief pilots for higher pay rates. The thought occurred to me that the over sixty guys will be seeking to get more at our expense again. This change to no bunkies could cause a serious ripple effect downward in the seniority list, with a resulting furlough.

The sad part of the downward spiral this job has endured (age 65 and now the NPRM) has come from the agency and union proscribed to protect us. Would hope that Judas Prater can stop stuffing his gullet long enough to take a stand for the benefit of the majority of the pilots for once in his tenure.

Prater has at least kept his word about "taking it back". We have been taking it IN the back ever since that slob took office.

gettinbumped

I'm really worried about the same. I was horrified when ALPA first opened the can of worms to up the flight time under certain conditions to 9 hours. When the airlines countered with 11 hours, you KNEW the FAA would go somewhere in the middle.

I have to say.... I'm not sure that I would not call in fatigued before a BRU or FRA-IAD flight with 2 pilots. I don't do that flying anymore, but I always slept like CRAP in Europe, and no I didn't commute. The thought of being able to be in the seat for 9 or 10 hours without a break or anything except a quick trip to the bathroom is horrifying. Can you say DVT?? Ridiculous.

chuckyt1

I don't think that most of the westbound flights would be legal with two pilots because of the departure time. Of course, I'm still trying to figure out the reserve rules...

bearcat

I'm not a huge fan of Prater, but age 65 was going to happen with or without ALPA.

Not sure how this is going to effect us.

Andy

I disagree. Mica had age 65 bottled up in the house aviation subcommittee and showed no - nada - zip - sign of ever letting it out of subcommittee. Until the ALPO push poll. Within a couple of weeks of that poll, Mica released the legislation from subcommittee. Coincidence? Not a chance. ALPO's been a steady contributor to Mica's campaigns for a very long time.

intrepidcv11

I agree that this is a potential IED for the new combined pilot group. Two guys coming across the pond from all of EU is a horrible idea on safety grounds. Of course it also takes away a lot of quality positions. If we have to fight for IRO contractually then so be it. Unfortunately just another thing to add to the MANDATORY LIST..

Monkeyfly

The problem with it being in our contract but not the FAA rule is that there will always be some other airline pilot group willing to undercut us, and the company will say we can't compete and pull out of the route; or an alliance partner will do it with two pilots and they will get the flying. Best to keep the rule in the regs! Alpa should know better and so should Babbitt!

HSLD

I'd suggest that you're wrong, not in interpreting the charts, but assuming a JCBA will have the new United working to FAR. Few organized airlines currently work to FARs, why would UAL/CAL start now? Work rules are the pad between the FARs and current quality of life and as you point out; a JCBA must show marked improvements.

As has always been the case, you get what you negotiate and if UAL/CAL pilots view the NPRM as the starting point instead of the current contract.....we're screwed.

Captain Bligh

Exactly. Simple math: JCBA - FAR = Pilot unitiy + Pilot resolve

Ever take a look at where the campaign funding for Captain Prater's election to national came from? Could it have been a group of pilots lobbying for the rule change?

I seem to remember a Congressional dead lock being broken by all eyes turning to ALPA's leadership with that, "Gee, how do you want us to handle this?" look.

Andy

I must confess that I was naive when Prater was up for election; he promised to follow the will of the pilots. He just omitted which pilots' will he was going to follow. I wasn't a big Woerth fan, but he followed the will of the majority, whether or not he agreed with it. That, in my mind, makes Woerth a much better ALPA president than Prater.


There were many Congressmen that didn't really care about the issue; they were going to vote exactly the way that ALPA told them to. They followed ALPA's marching orders to kill 65 up until ALPA released the push poll results. Very slimy handling of it. And just about every airline's ALPA reps voted in favor of supporting the change - definitely did not represent the majority.
I will never trust anyone from ALPA ever again.