The way it was explained to me...I could be wrong but it makes sense. United is maxed out on the number of 70 seaters flying for them so they can not add anymore on the code ( their scope at least has some limits). So if management wants to fly them out of IAH, CLE, or EWR, they either need to put it on the CAL code or reduce a flight on the UAL side. Make sense??


Please correct me if I'm wrong I don't know much about United's Scope.

Yes they are actually over the limit if you count UA connection i.e. Gulfsteam and others. Management says that doesn't count, grievance is in the process somewhere over that. So, now they would have to move a 70 seater or increase the mainline block hours to add that flying in a CAL hub.

30west

You're right if they don't market it as a codeshare or a CAL flight number and simply market it as UA they aren't in scope trouble at CAL. But it would show up oddly on res system and flights wouldn"t market well. Might not be profitable.

Heard the hearing wen't well for our side managements two witnesses were weak, a marketing guy and a guy who negotiated the scope. Whats the marketing guy going to say? " Yes we should get to fly where we want" What a waste of peoples time and the negotiator said " well we meant it to allow 70 seaters to fly in CAL hubs" on cross ALPA asked does it say that in the contract his answer " NO". Never know though how these are going to turn out.

30west

I'm sorry if it's been asked before, but what is the current limiting factor on UAL's 70 seat scope? Is it total airframes flying UAL code, a ratio of 70 seaters to UAL fleet numbers, block hours, total segments, total departures, amount of seats in the system, etc?

Gulfstream doesn't fly turbojet equipment, let alone the 70 seat kind. Does UAL's current scope have language dealing with turboprops?

dojet,

The basic answer to your question is:

1-C-1-d Number of Block Hours of Feeder Flying
In each calendar year, the number of scheduled block
hours of Feeder Flying may not exceed the number of
scheduled block hours of Company Flying.

I know, hard to believe isn't it. As 30 alluded to, that limit has been reached/potentially exceeded.

I'm not familiar enough with the "connection" aspect to comment.

Frats,
Lee

Well, I haven't seen these bag tags out there, but I sincerely hope that they don't exist.

We (CAL) have taken several jumpseaters in and out of IAH lately that do work for Shuttle America/Republic/CHQ, and they agree that they don't want to do the 170 flying. Of course, I'm sure that they will say that as long as they get a ride. However, I really hope that these folks don't want to do this flying and that we don't retaliate by denying them jumpseats later on if the arbitration doesn't go well for us at CAL. We will reap what we sow. Some of our CAL pilots may have to jumpseat on Shuttle America/Republic/CHQ most likely.

I don't jumpseat on any flights other than mainline (one that could potentially be done by a 170), so it won't hurt my jumpseating ability should someone start a jumpseat war. I just hope that we keep our eye on the prize and direct attention to our disagreement with management, not other airline pilots.

Thanks. Just for my own clarification, it's all feeder flying as United Express, to encompass 50 seat jet, as well as turboprops? To make an extreme case, under current scope, ALL United Express flying (not connection) could be done with 70 seat equipment as long as the 1 for 1 block hour limit isn't exceeded. Is that correct?

Thanks.

The way it was explained to me is if they are going to put UAL code on the flights then it will still be fought. You are both (CAL/UAL) in section 6 negotiations so things have to stay status quo to keep legal with the RLA.

The flights are already on the schedule and tickets are being sold. I am xjt and i am deadheading to IND on a 170 to pick up a pairing next month. What will happen if you win? Limit the aircraft to 50 PAX? Financial penalty per flight?

A lot of people are hoping you guys pull this one out.

No verbiage on turboprops but it falls under the block hours formula, the language calls it "Feeder Flying" we say that includes all airplanes bringing pax to UAL, management says it means only planes that say "United Express" thats the disagreement and why a grievance was filed. They are over limit if were right but under a little if they are right.

30west

Thanks.

So can it be said that the number of 70 seat airframes in the United Express/Connection system is unlimited as long as it doesn't exceed the block hour limit?