Guam flying
07-29-2011 | 10:45 AM
#2
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From: 737 CA
There is lots of info on Calforums, but I don't know if they let you in until you are CAL.? You can try.
I hear the commute is very difficult and most have go through Japan to get there. It's expensive to live there, but cheaper if you are ex-military (shopping and medical). The schools suck, so pay a lot for private school or home school. The locals hate americans. The flying kinda sucks in my opinion. Lots of redeye turns to Japan for example. Flying the 737 ETOPS around the Pacific just sounds wrong to me.
I almost bid Guam for an adventure, but did some research and changed my mind. Guam is a "love/hate" base. You either love it or hate it. Hopefully someone who flew there will respond to you.
EWR is actually a great base, just don't live near the airport!
I hear the commute is very difficult and most have go through Japan to get there. It's expensive to live there, but cheaper if you are ex-military (shopping and medical). The schools suck, so pay a lot for private school or home school. The locals hate americans. The flying kinda sucks in my opinion. Lots of redeye turns to Japan for example. Flying the 737 ETOPS around the Pacific just sounds wrong to me.
I almost bid Guam for an adventure, but did some research and changed my mind. Guam is a "love/hate" base. You either love it or hate it. Hopefully someone who flew there will respond to you.
EWR is actually a great base, just don't live near the airport!
07-29-2011 | 11:02 AM
#3
Thread Starter
work nights and weekends
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 202
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From: United SFO B-737
Retired military and kids out of college so schools and some cost issues wouldn't apply. Was looking at it as an adventure also but want a lot more info. As a west coast guy could come down to EWR or Guam. Also, can't access the Calforum.
Last edited by JMD16; 07-29-2011 at 12:13 PM. Reason: adding line
07-30-2011 | 08:13 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
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There are definitely some distortions or mis-speaks on Guam from Otto, probably because he just looked at schedules, so I'll correct a few things, no offense.
1) All Japan flying is day flying. You take off at somewhere between 6:45 am to 8:30 am and land anywhere from 3:15 pm to 5:30 pm. This is about 60% of the flying schedule in Guam. If you can hold a percentage around 50%, then you could have all day Japan out and backs if thats what you like, each with a value of roughly 7.5 hours per day. That means you could have 11 single day out and backs for the month with a 77 hour line and have 18-19 days off each month. Thats if you're senior enough to hold it. If you are, its a darn good and easy life. GUM used to be all -800s which made all the flying mid-body pay, but now they have -700s out there and about 55% of the flying has gone back to the SNB pay scale.
2) There are a lot of red-eyes for the junior folks, but they aren't Japan. They are Australia (CNS), HKG, MNL-ROR, The island hopper (to HNL), and Fiji(soon to be gone if not gone already) some other crappy island flights that are worth about 3-5 hour red eyes that end up going mostly to reserves. The good thing about the red-eyes is that most of them are pretty productive red-eyes. Most of them are 3 man trips worth 8-10+ hours, so it really ends up 2 calendar days of flying, but in reality your only gone 1 night. So you might have a schedule that says you only have 12-13 days off, but in reality, if you have a lot of 8-10 hr red-eyes, you really end up with an equivalent of 18 days off.
3) There are only 2 (real) layovers in GUM, 3 if you count Koror, Paulau (ROR) year round. One is HNL, the other is Fiji, but Fiji is going away. The ROR layover is normally the worst trip at a 2+55 hr trip red-eye that leaves GUM late at night, you lay over in a hotel for about 4 hrs, then return to GUM at around 7ish in the morning. These fall into open time all the time and end up being an easy reserve trip. The HNL layover is anywhere from 1 night to 3 nights layover, which are good for HNL commuters, or at least they used to be, but now with some changes that have occurred, some commuters don't like them. There are some seasonal layovers in Australia and Japan, but only go for a month at a time. There are also always charters to some pretty exotic locations from the military or just Korean, Chinese, or Japanese tourist groups. These tend to go very senior.
4) Trip trading for FOs was always 10x easier than trading back on the mainland. Many times you can do a straight drop if you call up when the trip trade window opens. That is almost impossible to do back on the mainland since reserve coverage sux. If you want to drop a productive red-eye or a japan turn, someone will pick it up from you very often since almost all trips are pretty productive, so if you want a birthday or special occasion off that isn't a big holiday, you probably wont have problems, even very junior. Some schedulers will let you drop trips even when they are below min coverage for the month because they know some of the trips will get picked up from open time almost immediately.
5) If you have school age kids, yes you will have to home school or pay for expensive private school unless you don't care about whether your kids go to school in 3rd world schools.
6) I think most people in Guam love Americans, but I wasn't a single guy out there. I think that most people that get this impression go out bar hopping and the impression they get from the Chamorro people is they aren't welcome since the single military guys and other guys just steal the few good looking chicks on the island. For families, the Guam people are very friendly and hospitable and we never had anyone that shunned us for being "mainlanders".
7) If you like cold wx, you need not apply. The only cold you'll see is flying into northern Japan in the winter or perhaps Korea. Guam is 85-90 degrees year round, always humid, and will always rain randomly throughout the day. Very similar to summers in Florida, but sometimes the rain stays around for a day or 2.
8) Don't believe the old hype about snakes, you'll never see them in inhabited locations.
9) Crime is prevalent, but its not violent, mainly thieves stealing stuff from neighboring islands, so lock up your goodies or live in a gated community.
10) With the merger, GUM will take some of UALs Japan flying, and will lose some of it's HNL and NRT flying. This may cause more layovers and less productive trips. Many people out there are worried this is going to screw up the base.
11) If your a UAL guy that wants to meet a lot of Scabs, you'll be happy to know there are quite a few of the CAs that are on "the list".
12) Scuba diving in GUM and surrounding islands is some of the best in the world, bar none. So if your into diving or want to start, its cheap and awesome.
13) Everything is expensive in Guam unless you have a military ID. You will pay more for clothes, toys, milk, food, cars, rent, etc. Basically, everything is hiked up in price due to the military and because the Yen is so strong. Japanese come to Guam and it's like Mexico used to be about 20 years ago. For Americans, its very expensive in GUM. Restaurants are twice as expensive if you want to eat out. If you like fish, the fish is very good.
14) If you are single and like asian chicks or travel to asia, wow, it would be a super awesome place to be. Travel to Asia is cake, and you don't need 3 weeks off and to survive jet lag every time you go out to Asia.
Thats all i can think of for now. It is a place that you will either love or hate. Travel to the mainland has been difficult in the past, but since UAL is putting a 777 on the HNL-IAH flight(instead of a 767) in the fall and now passes are free for both carriers, travel back to the mainland could be easier, or perhaps could be more of a nightmare with a lot of new UAL non-revs that want to see GUM or the other islands. It will probably be slightly easier since there are more options from HNL with UA, but somehow it seems Hawaii flights are always full.
1) All Japan flying is day flying. You take off at somewhere between 6:45 am to 8:30 am and land anywhere from 3:15 pm to 5:30 pm. This is about 60% of the flying schedule in Guam. If you can hold a percentage around 50%, then you could have all day Japan out and backs if thats what you like, each with a value of roughly 7.5 hours per day. That means you could have 11 single day out and backs for the month with a 77 hour line and have 18-19 days off each month. Thats if you're senior enough to hold it. If you are, its a darn good and easy life. GUM used to be all -800s which made all the flying mid-body pay, but now they have -700s out there and about 55% of the flying has gone back to the SNB pay scale.
2) There are a lot of red-eyes for the junior folks, but they aren't Japan. They are Australia (CNS), HKG, MNL-ROR, The island hopper (to HNL), and Fiji(soon to be gone if not gone already) some other crappy island flights that are worth about 3-5 hour red eyes that end up going mostly to reserves. The good thing about the red-eyes is that most of them are pretty productive red-eyes. Most of them are 3 man trips worth 8-10+ hours, so it really ends up 2 calendar days of flying, but in reality your only gone 1 night. So you might have a schedule that says you only have 12-13 days off, but in reality, if you have a lot of 8-10 hr red-eyes, you really end up with an equivalent of 18 days off.
3) There are only 2 (real) layovers in GUM, 3 if you count Koror, Paulau (ROR) year round. One is HNL, the other is Fiji, but Fiji is going away. The ROR layover is normally the worst trip at a 2+55 hr trip red-eye that leaves GUM late at night, you lay over in a hotel for about 4 hrs, then return to GUM at around 7ish in the morning. These fall into open time all the time and end up being an easy reserve trip. The HNL layover is anywhere from 1 night to 3 nights layover, which are good for HNL commuters, or at least they used to be, but now with some changes that have occurred, some commuters don't like them. There are some seasonal layovers in Australia and Japan, but only go for a month at a time. There are also always charters to some pretty exotic locations from the military or just Korean, Chinese, or Japanese tourist groups. These tend to go very senior.
4) Trip trading for FOs was always 10x easier than trading back on the mainland. Many times you can do a straight drop if you call up when the trip trade window opens. That is almost impossible to do back on the mainland since reserve coverage sux. If you want to drop a productive red-eye or a japan turn, someone will pick it up from you very often since almost all trips are pretty productive, so if you want a birthday or special occasion off that isn't a big holiday, you probably wont have problems, even very junior. Some schedulers will let you drop trips even when they are below min coverage for the month because they know some of the trips will get picked up from open time almost immediately.
5) If you have school age kids, yes you will have to home school or pay for expensive private school unless you don't care about whether your kids go to school in 3rd world schools.
6) I think most people in Guam love Americans, but I wasn't a single guy out there. I think that most people that get this impression go out bar hopping and the impression they get from the Chamorro people is they aren't welcome since the single military guys and other guys just steal the few good looking chicks on the island. For families, the Guam people are very friendly and hospitable and we never had anyone that shunned us for being "mainlanders".
7) If you like cold wx, you need not apply. The only cold you'll see is flying into northern Japan in the winter or perhaps Korea. Guam is 85-90 degrees year round, always humid, and will always rain randomly throughout the day. Very similar to summers in Florida, but sometimes the rain stays around for a day or 2.
8) Don't believe the old hype about snakes, you'll never see them in inhabited locations.
9) Crime is prevalent, but its not violent, mainly thieves stealing stuff from neighboring islands, so lock up your goodies or live in a gated community.
10) With the merger, GUM will take some of UALs Japan flying, and will lose some of it's HNL and NRT flying. This may cause more layovers and less productive trips. Many people out there are worried this is going to screw up the base.
11) If your a UAL guy that wants to meet a lot of Scabs, you'll be happy to know there are quite a few of the CAs that are on "the list".
12) Scuba diving in GUM and surrounding islands is some of the best in the world, bar none. So if your into diving or want to start, its cheap and awesome.
13) Everything is expensive in Guam unless you have a military ID. You will pay more for clothes, toys, milk, food, cars, rent, etc. Basically, everything is hiked up in price due to the military and because the Yen is so strong. Japanese come to Guam and it's like Mexico used to be about 20 years ago. For Americans, its very expensive in GUM. Restaurants are twice as expensive if you want to eat out. If you like fish, the fish is very good.
14) If you are single and like asian chicks or travel to asia, wow, it would be a super awesome place to be. Travel to Asia is cake, and you don't need 3 weeks off and to survive jet lag every time you go out to Asia.
Thats all i can think of for now. It is a place that you will either love or hate. Travel to the mainland has been difficult in the past, but since UAL is putting a 777 on the HNL-IAH flight(instead of a 767) in the fall and now passes are free for both carriers, travel back to the mainland could be easier, or perhaps could be more of a nightmare with a lot of new UAL non-revs that want to see GUM or the other islands. It will probably be slightly easier since there are more options from HNL with UA, but somehow it seems Hawaii flights are always full.
07-31-2011 | 12:23 AM
#5
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
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From: 2x Furloughed
Thanks Zoomie for your details on Guam! That answered a lot of questions for me. I'm thinking of going there for an "adventure" as well, if offered. I'm a west coaster and would hate EWR, but Guam or IAH would be okay with me.
I was checking out the Welcome to Guam document on CAL's website last night. It mentioned the company moving two cars, belongings, etc, for a company paid move. Is there a company paid move for "newhires" to Guam?
We would move there if I was assigned that base, I like red-eyes
, and have no children. We do have two golden retrievers that we would bring with us (30 day quarantine). Do you know if it's a problem renting a house with two large dogs? Are the rentals friendly/not friendly to dogs? I've looked into housing and the costs seem similar to SFO but less than EWR...does that sound right?
Also, how is the humidity as compared to Hawaii? Is it pretty similar to Hawaii? I know that sounds like a weird question, but I find the humidity in Hawaii a lot easier to deal with than the Midwest (Chicago and Milwaukee). Thanks for your input.
I was checking out the Welcome to Guam document on CAL's website last night. It mentioned the company moving two cars, belongings, etc, for a company paid move. Is there a company paid move for "newhires" to Guam?
We would move there if I was assigned that base, I like red-eyes
, and have no children. We do have two golden retrievers that we would bring with us (30 day quarantine). Do you know if it's a problem renting a house with two large dogs? Are the rentals friendly/not friendly to dogs? I've looked into housing and the costs seem similar to SFO but less than EWR...does that sound right?Also, how is the humidity as compared to Hawaii? Is it pretty similar to Hawaii? I know that sounds like a weird question, but I find the humidity in Hawaii a lot easier to deal with than the Midwest (Chicago and Milwaukee). Thanks for your input.
07-31-2011 | 12:45 AM
#6
Thread Starter
work nights and weekends
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 202
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From: United SFO B-737
10) With the merger, GUM will take some of UALs Japan flying, and will lose some of it's HNL and NRT flying. This may cause more layovers and less productive trips. Many people out there are worried this is going to screw up the base.
Thats all i can think of for now. It is a place that you will either love or hate. Travel to the mainland has been difficult in the past, but since UAL is putting a 777 on the HNL-IAH flight(instead of a 767) in the fall and now passes are free for both carriers, travel back to the mainland could be easier, or perhaps could be more of a nightmare with a lot of new UAL non-revs that want to see GUM or the other islands. It will probably be slightly easier since there are more options from HNL with UA, but somehow it seems Hawaii flights are always full.
Thanks, great information
07-31-2011 | 05:23 AM
#8
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Joined: May 2006
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From: 737 CA
07-31-2011 | 07:16 AM
#9
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Joined: Feb 2008
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A few answers:
A lot of people have dogs on the island, mostly stray "boonie" dogs that tend to be extremely well mannered. I don't think most renters have any problems with dogs. However, you will most likely pay a pet deposit that may or may not be refundable.
Humidity in GUM is much more than Hawaii. At least compared to Oahu since I haven't been to the other islands in Hawaii. I've heard the Big Island is fairly rainy and humid in Hawaii, but I can't compare since I've never been there.
Technically, people from Guam are Americans, but since they are a territory, they can't vote for the president and they don't have any voting representation in Washington DC. I think there is 1 "non-voting" representative that is in DC that represents all of Micronesia (GUM and surrounding islands). They do have US passports and consider themselves Americans. The Guam saying is "Where America's day begins", so I apologize if I offended anyone. The tax code is the same as the mainland, but all federal taxes you pay go to Guam instead of DC. There are no "state" taxes to speak of.
A lot of people have dogs on the island, mostly stray "boonie" dogs that tend to be extremely well mannered. I don't think most renters have any problems with dogs. However, you will most likely pay a pet deposit that may or may not be refundable.
Humidity in GUM is much more than Hawaii. At least compared to Oahu since I haven't been to the other islands in Hawaii. I've heard the Big Island is fairly rainy and humid in Hawaii, but I can't compare since I've never been there.
Technically, people from Guam are Americans, but since they are a territory, they can't vote for the president and they don't have any voting representation in Washington DC. I think there is 1 "non-voting" representative that is in DC that represents all of Micronesia (GUM and surrounding islands). They do have US passports and consider themselves Americans. The Guam saying is "Where America's day begins", so I apologize if I offended anyone. The tax code is the same as the mainland, but all federal taxes you pay go to Guam instead of DC. There are no "state" taxes to speak of.
07-31-2011 | 07:18 AM
#10
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Newhires do get a "company paid" move to Guam. If you want the company paid move, you should expect to pay back 18 months in Guam. If you want the company to move you back, expect to pay back 36 months in Guam.
For commuters, there are some people with crashpads. To find out, talk to the base administrator, Therese and she might be able to point you in the right direction.
For commuters, there are some people with crashpads. To find out, talk to the base administrator, Therese and she might be able to point you in the right direction.
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