CAL MEC Chair tries to divides pilot groups
11-24-2011 | 09:38 AM
#31
Banned
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I just wonder what you hope to gain by dragging the public into it. By making this PA you're telling the public, "We're safer than ex-UAL pilots because we're using CAL procedures."
What, exactly, to you propose to gain by eroding the public's confidence in the safety of your entire system? You're telling them that when they buy a ticket on "United" airlines they're engaging in a crapshoot as to whether there will be a CAL or UAL flight deck crew.
Just because you have two feet, you don't have to shoot yourself in BOTH of them.
What, exactly, to you propose to gain by eroding the public's confidence in the safety of your entire system? You're telling them that when they buy a ticket on "United" airlines they're engaging in a crapshoot as to whether there will be a CAL or UAL flight deck crew.
Just because you have two feet, you don't have to shoot yourself in BOTH of them.
11-24-2011 | 10:00 AM
#32
Moderate Moderator
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,681
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From: Curator at Static Display
TOS, Intent, & Language
If you don't like this thread, don't participate.
To All:
Many threads on APC may inspire strong emotional reactions. Regardless of your position, it does not allow unrestrained use of language.
If you use profanity, or disguised profanity, you will at a minimum receive a warning or infraction. Keep it up, and you may get an opportunity to not post for a few days to think about the consequences.
The intent here is to keep this site professional. The overall tone should be "CNN-capable:" it could be shown unedited on the evening news.
I am posting this in the United/Continental section as it seems to be the source of the most firey rhetoric.
I expect spirited responses on issues and vastly different viewpoints and beliefs, but the overall expectation is to use your head and logic to present your point, not vulgarities.
To All:
Many threads on APC may inspire strong emotional reactions. Regardless of your position, it does not allow unrestrained use of language.
If you use profanity, or disguised profanity, you will at a minimum receive a warning or infraction. Keep it up, and you may get an opportunity to not post for a few days to think about the consequences.
The intent here is to keep this site professional. The overall tone should be "CNN-capable:" it could be shown unedited on the evening news.
I am posting this in the United/Continental section as it seems to be the source of the most firey rhetoric.
I expect spirited responses on issues and vastly different viewpoints and beliefs, but the overall expectation is to use your head and logic to present your point, not vulgarities.
11-24-2011 | 11:52 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 0
From: A Nobody
"On this we can agree! Captian Jayson Baron, Chairman CAL C170, showed the leadership needed - he put it on the line and didn't hedge his position as he lead a combined CAL/UAL pilot group out of Jeff's room. Well Done!"
And another vote of well done from me!
As far as any comparison of safe verses unsafe between the two legacy carriers, it is a totally unfair, divisive and is without merit.
Due to the scope of the changes which were being made it is LUAL's training which was/is being described as deficient. Readers of this blog can be assured the pilots at LUAL will neither operate any aircraft in an "unsafe" manner nor lower their professional standards of operation due to the methods (or lack thereof) in which the new SOPs were trained and implemented. Ironically it is this very professionalism and high standards in which UAL Management relied upon in choosing their method(s) of training the changes in SOP.
Bottom line is I would not hesitate to board my family and friends on any United flight, whether it be LUAL or LCAL, during this transition process because of the quality, tradition and high standards of professional conduct developed and practiced by my fellow LUAL and LCAL pilots.
That being said knowing that "first impressions are lasting impressions" it is sad to to imagine the new UAL Management has set a new low standard of training for the future and that it may continue in a similar fashion into the future.
And another vote of well done from me!
As far as any comparison of safe verses unsafe between the two legacy carriers, it is a totally unfair, divisive and is without merit.
Due to the scope of the changes which were being made it is LUAL's training which was/is being described as deficient. Readers of this blog can be assured the pilots at LUAL will neither operate any aircraft in an "unsafe" manner nor lower their professional standards of operation due to the methods (or lack thereof) in which the new SOPs were trained and implemented. Ironically it is this very professionalism and high standards in which UAL Management relied upon in choosing their method(s) of training the changes in SOP.
Bottom line is I would not hesitate to board my family and friends on any United flight, whether it be LUAL or LCAL, during this transition process because of the quality, tradition and high standards of professional conduct developed and practiced by my fellow LUAL and LCAL pilots.
That being said knowing that "first impressions are lasting impressions" it is sad to to imagine the new UAL Management has set a new low standard of training for the future and that it may continue in a similar fashion into the future.
11-24-2011 | 12:33 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 303
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From: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
what are you DOING??
FROM THE CHAIRMAN
Monday morning, I was surprised to learn that the UAL MEC prepared and presented to each member of Congress a very lengthy report describing the problems they are facing with merger- and SOC-related training. As we have told our UAL counterparts many times, we fully support the UAL pilots’ efforts to ensure adequate training for their pilots. We believe that all pilots, regardless of their background, should receive the training necessary to operate at the highest levels of safety. Both airlines, CAL and UAL, have long histories of operating in such a manner and of valuing safety. While we must and will be ever vigilant to ensure that the merger does not detract from safety, we also must make sure that historical preferences or pride of authorship do not detract from otherwise legitimate issues. Had we been offered the opportunity to provide our counsel on this issue, I suspect we could have helped them avoid some of the negatives this report has created.
There were a handful of CEO Exchanges this week in Houston and Newark. Union pilots attended each of them and asked Mr. Smisek about the foot dragging that has slowed progress at the negotiating table and about his thoughts on pilot issues. Please keep in mind that these Exchanges are part of the corporate spin machine, set up as a platform for Mr. Smisek to get out his message. Don’t believe that they are designed to offer real communication or are a venue to get answers to questions. Just like you should never plan on winning a debate with a radio talk show host in these events, he is not going to provide us the opportunity to truly discuss an issue. On the subject of our contract, Mr. Smisek’s mantra of late is to tell anyone who will listen that he will not reward or pay one employee group (greedy pilots) at the expense of the others. He claims that everyone will share equally.
To that, I think we all know what a bunch of hypocritical horse dung that is. The executives of this company have had their hands in labor’s pockets so deep in order to line their own pockets that we shouldn’t be bothered about checking them for lint, much less any stray coin. Other than a few obvious “plants” who applaud every time he says something negative about pilots, I think the vast majority of employees understand that a rising tide should lift all boats and our contractual achievements will benefit them as well.
Finally today, as I updated my manuals this week, a thought occurred to me. Soon, we will be changing our call sign for ATC purposes to “United.” This will come as a function of the single operating certificate. As hard as that will be for many of us, it is an inevitable part of the merger. However, the fact remains that, until we complete the joint contract and SLI process, we must be operated as an independent airline. Legacy Continental must be operated separately until those two items are accomplished. Therefore, even though externally we will use the United call sign, internally, I think it imperative that we truthfully advise our passengers that the flight is being operated proudly by ALPA pilots for Continental Airlines. I can imagine something like this, "Hello, folks. From the cockpit, welcome aboard flight 123, operated with the highest level of care and safety by ALPA pilots for Continental Airlines." I think it important that we tell the truth to our passengers. The fact is that until the job is done, nothing has been created except a holding company with two subsidiaries. Everything else is just window dressing.
Have a good weekend and Fly Safe.
One Union, One Voice
Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman
Monday morning, I was surprised to learn that the UAL MEC prepared and presented to each member of Congress a very lengthy report describing the problems they are facing with merger- and SOC-related training. As we have told our UAL counterparts many times, we fully support the UAL pilots’ efforts to ensure adequate training for their pilots. We believe that all pilots, regardless of their background, should receive the training necessary to operate at the highest levels of safety. Both airlines, CAL and UAL, have long histories of operating in such a manner and of valuing safety. While we must and will be ever vigilant to ensure that the merger does not detract from safety, we also must make sure that historical preferences or pride of authorship do not detract from otherwise legitimate issues. Had we been offered the opportunity to provide our counsel on this issue, I suspect we could have helped them avoid some of the negatives this report has created.
There were a handful of CEO Exchanges this week in Houston and Newark. Union pilots attended each of them and asked Mr. Smisek about the foot dragging that has slowed progress at the negotiating table and about his thoughts on pilot issues. Please keep in mind that these Exchanges are part of the corporate spin machine, set up as a platform for Mr. Smisek to get out his message. Don’t believe that they are designed to offer real communication or are a venue to get answers to questions. Just like you should never plan on winning a debate with a radio talk show host in these events, he is not going to provide us the opportunity to truly discuss an issue. On the subject of our contract, Mr. Smisek’s mantra of late is to tell anyone who will listen that he will not reward or pay one employee group (greedy pilots) at the expense of the others. He claims that everyone will share equally.
To that, I think we all know what a bunch of hypocritical horse dung that is. The executives of this company have had their hands in labor’s pockets so deep in order to line their own pockets that we shouldn’t be bothered about checking them for lint, much less any stray coin. Other than a few obvious “plants” who applaud every time he says something negative about pilots, I think the vast majority of employees understand that a rising tide should lift all boats and our contractual achievements will benefit them as well.
Finally today, as I updated my manuals this week, a thought occurred to me. Soon, we will be changing our call sign for ATC purposes to “United.” This will come as a function of the single operating certificate. As hard as that will be for many of us, it is an inevitable part of the merger. However, the fact remains that, until we complete the joint contract and SLI process, we must be operated as an independent airline. Legacy Continental must be operated separately until those two items are accomplished. Therefore, even though externally we will use the United call sign, internally, I think it imperative that we truthfully advise our passengers that the flight is being operated proudly by ALPA pilots for Continental Airlines. I can imagine something like this, "Hello, folks. From the cockpit, welcome aboard flight 123, operated with the highest level of care and safety by ALPA pilots for Continental Airlines." I think it important that we tell the truth to our passengers. The fact is that until the job is done, nothing has been created except a holding company with two subsidiaries. Everything else is just window dressing.
Have a good weekend and Fly Safe.
One Union, One Voice
Capt. Jay Pierce
CAL MEC Chairman
isn't all of this pretty LATE and a couple'a dollars Short of a "Happy meal"??
The SOC is Next WEEK for cryin' out loud. It appears they moved up on the delivery schedule for the 787's and you guys are STILL Bickering about WHAT?? Come on Man!! What are you doing and WHY aren't you speaking with ONE Voice?? It's pretty damn Late to have Buyers remorse Now!
So either Get on BOARD or Quit Because you're dealing with UNITED management now! These Guys will "Quarter and Dice you" if you're not all together in this. ***!! is there a Duplicate ALPA union?? or are you guys going to do like those Dimwit USAir pilots did and form a continental or united pilots assn. and then glare at each other until Management moves airplanes from one side of the corp to the other side and just Rids themselves of the problem once and for ALL!! Get a Grip!!
Aren't most of you college graduates? Well then ACT LIKE it!! Show some smarts and settle the strategy CALPA/UALPA and let's GO for it!
11-24-2011 | 04:09 PM
#35
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 93
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I just wonder what you hope to gain by dragging the public into it. By making this PA you're telling the public, "We're safer than ex-UAL pilots because we're using CAL procedures."
What, exactly, to you propose to gain by eroding the public's confidence in the safety of your entire system? You're telling them that when they buy a ticket on "United" airlines they're engaging in a crapshoot as to whether there will be a CAL or UAL flight deck crew.
Just because you have two feet, you don't have to shoot yourself in BOTH of them.
What, exactly, to you propose to gain by eroding the public's confidence in the safety of your entire system? You're telling them that when they buy a ticket on "United" airlines they're engaging in a crapshoot as to whether there will be a CAL or UAL flight deck crew.
Just because you have two feet, you don't have to shoot yourself in BOTH of them.
11-24-2011 | 06:01 PM
#36
Banned
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 0
That's a bit different because the Express operator is a different airline. This version of the PA only serves to confuse the pax because they think they've bought a ticket on new United.
11-24-2011 | 06:13 PM
#37
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Joined: Jul 2011
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I know, that's why I was surprised to see Capt. Pierce suggest the CAL pilots use something almost like the RJ Carriers.
11-25-2011 | 05:44 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
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Did Pierce consult with the United MEC before doing this? I would expect not as it is an internal Continental matter, kind of like the white paper is for United.
11-25-2011 | 07:13 AM
#39
Need More Callouts
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,143
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From: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Is this clap-trap still being posted on?
Enough already, We get it, Jay Pierce is the devil and the UAL MEC can do no wrong.
If Coto and DF would concentrate more on what we can do together, perhaps we'd be getting somewhere. Hey Coto, since you're coming to work at evil old Continental shortly, perhaps you can help vote Jay out and put in a real team player like Wendy?
We truly are our own worst enemies.
Enough already, We get it, Jay Pierce is the devil and the UAL MEC can do no wrong.
If Coto and DF would concentrate more on what we can do together, perhaps we'd be getting somewhere. Hey Coto, since you're coming to work at evil old Continental shortly, perhaps you can help vote Jay out and put in a real team player like Wendy?
We truly are our own worst enemies.
Last edited by 757Driver; 11-25-2011 at 07:39 AM.
11-25-2011 | 07:42 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
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Not sure where you're coming from 757, I didn't say a negative word about Pierce. In terms of getting a contract, the two MEC's are working together or are supposed to be. For other matters they are not, such as is the case with the white paper and Jay's comments about a special boarding announcement.
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