Coach67

Having watched the Profit Sharing debacle unfold for a unilateral gain for the CAL side ... I wonder how the arguments will quickly reverse when there is a Lump Sum to divide in the future JCBA.

UAL pilots will argue that it should be divided based on lost hourly wage rates with the major portion going to the underpaid UAL pilots.

CAL will argue for a flat distribution based on seat since that is how CAL pilots will get an even amount.

It will be interesting to hear the "entitled profit sharing arguments" from the CAL side reverse to the equal share for both sides.

Somebody should keep a log of all posts now to compare with future posts.

SpecialTracking

I think there is a difference between now and if we ever reach a JCBA. Now, were are trying to maintain the status quo in order to prevent another Lorenzoesque moment.

EWRflyr

I don't even see how there could be an argument over retro pay.

Our amendable date to JCBA DOS = a certain amount of money that should have been paid over that time for distribution based on changes in hourly rates for CAL pilots

Your amendable date to JCBA DOS = a certain amount of money that should have been paid over that time for distribution based on changes in hourly rates for UAL pilots

To make each side whole as of DOS is going to require different dollar amounts for each pilot group, with the majority going to L-UAL pilots. That should be a given and has been pretty much accepted here since your rates are lower than ours. Every line pilot I know is aware that L-UAL pilots are going to see the biggest % pay increase compared to us in the new JCBA so logically your retro will be higher.

Now if you are talking a "signing bonus" pool of money that management wants to give the pilots, that is a completely different story. There could be a philosophical fight over that unless there is an agreement to proportion it like retro pay. However, no one I know will entertain a "signing bonus" and we have indicated as such to our reps, MEC and the negotiating committee. We all expect to be made whole come JCBA and a "signing bonus" won't cut it for the majority of us.

syd111

Another comical post a jcba, sure that will happen real soon.

SpecialTracking

What? You haven't picked out your beach house on the Manhattan Beach Strand yet?

syd111

Oh yea and picked up a nice ski chalet in aspen. lol. We just keep setting ourselves further back.

Coach67

There is the argument ... wouldn't it be Merger Announcement Date for the JCBA to JCBA signing. Would CAL pilots really expect to be made whole back to the CAL amendable date? After all both sides (CAL and UAL) agreed to dispense with their individual Section 6 bargaining and restart with the JCBA? That's what both sides agreed to in signing the T&PA. Or are the CAL pilot's saying that the T&PA agreement (along with the extra one year of Profit Sharing and its expiration) is just so much fluff and can be negotiated around by either pilot group to the detriment of a JCBA? Just sayin.

13n144e

Seriously? You want to worry about who gets more retro pay in a JCBA that may never even happen? But just to clarify what you are talking about is the difference between retro pay and a "signing bonus". I was told (by Pierce - and I know how much you guys think of him) that the clock was reset and retro would only go back as far as the MAD. Our increase in hourly rates will be proportionately smaller as well. Some sort of parity is supposedly reached by obtaining UAL work rules. But there's plenty to argue about without hypotheticals - do you really need to make up stuff to worry about before it even happens - if ever? "Just sayin"

captainL

haaa. Yes, CAL will get 1 more years worth of profit sharing. But you guys will get more hourly rate. Should put it pretty close in $$. Of course I wouldn't put it past some of the LUAL pilots to kick and scream about how the CAL guys don't deserve retro for the initial year.

APC225

Work rules have value. If the new pay rate is the CAL scale UAL pilots will get retro pay, back to their amenable date of 1/1/10, based on this new scale. CAL pilots will get no pay-scale retro because their pay scales have not changed.

By the same token, if the new work rules are UAL's then CAL pilots will get a retro check, back to their amenable date of 1/1/9, based on the increased value of the work rules. UAL will get no work-rule retro because their work rules have not changed.

True retro is not just based on pay scales, it's based on the entire value of the new contract. P.S., neither CAL pay scales nor UAL work rules are acceptable in a JCBA.