New bases
01-22-2012 | 12:52 PM
#11
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
So how exactly does the displacement process work at CAL?
At UAL, we aren't simply reassigned to a new base or seat - we're displaced and have the ability to "bump" to any seat/fleet/domicile that we can hold, so any changes like bidding IAH 320 would be accompanied with displacements from other domiciles. This can cause a significant number of training events. As a for instance, if they bump DEN 320 Captains, all of those pilots can hold a minimum of 777/400 widebody in any domicile, 756 in any domicile and obviously 320 F/O everywhere. A 320 Cap might bump to 777 F/O in SFO, which might mean a 777 F/O bump to 756 or back 320 Cap, which might mean a bump from 756 to 320 F/O.... etc... I bet if they bump 500 pilots (200 lines + reserves) collectively from Den and ORD 320, that they'll generate 1000+ bumps into other seats/fleets/bases.
This would obviously be different for the F/O's as they can likely only hold 320 F/O, but they can go where they can hold - not necessarily IAH. Eventually, if IAH doesn't get filled up with voluntary bumps, and is the junior 320 base, then the most junior will get bumped into the only base they can hold.
The entire process could easily take 4-6+ monthly bids to flush out the final outcome. That might mean literally hundreds of transition courses. Each of those takes a month, plus IOE and we don't have the staffing at TK to do that based on the level of inactivity I've seen around the place. Maybe once it is spooled back up.
This doesn't take into account the fact that adding several hundred commuters into the IAH-DEN or IAH-ORD commute will be a scheduling nightmare. I can virtually assure you that the vast majority of DEN based LUAL pilots live here and can't/won't move. Involuntarily displacing from here at least with no access to bid the replacement 737 airframes (don't know about the ORD pilot community) will be a complete train wreck to bid, train and maintain schedule integrity.
Maybe, just maybe, someone near the top realized at least some of the complexity of displacing pilots that I've just outlined and are looking for a less onerous and more workable solution. Fool hardy to hope that they've done the analysis that a common line pilot is capable of, I know, but it might make at least a little sense to find a different tact than they seemed intent on taking.
At UAL, we aren't simply reassigned to a new base or seat - we're displaced and have the ability to "bump" to any seat/fleet/domicile that we can hold, so any changes like bidding IAH 320 would be accompanied with displacements from other domiciles. This can cause a significant number of training events. As a for instance, if they bump DEN 320 Captains, all of those pilots can hold a minimum of 777/400 widebody in any domicile, 756 in any domicile and obviously 320 F/O everywhere. A 320 Cap might bump to 777 F/O in SFO, which might mean a 777 F/O bump to 756 or back 320 Cap, which might mean a bump from 756 to 320 F/O.... etc... I bet if they bump 500 pilots (200 lines + reserves) collectively from Den and ORD 320, that they'll generate 1000+ bumps into other seats/fleets/bases.
This would obviously be different for the F/O's as they can likely only hold 320 F/O, but they can go where they can hold - not necessarily IAH. Eventually, if IAH doesn't get filled up with voluntary bumps, and is the junior 320 base, then the most junior will get bumped into the only base they can hold.
The entire process could easily take 4-6+ monthly bids to flush out the final outcome. That might mean literally hundreds of transition courses. Each of those takes a month, plus IOE and we don't have the staffing at TK to do that based on the level of inactivity I've seen around the place. Maybe once it is spooled back up.
This doesn't take into account the fact that adding several hundred commuters into the IAH-DEN or IAH-ORD commute will be a scheduling nightmare. I can virtually assure you that the vast majority of DEN based LUAL pilots live here and can't/won't move. Involuntarily displacing from here at least with no access to bid the replacement 737 airframes (don't know about the ORD pilot community) will be a complete train wreck to bid, train and maintain schedule integrity.
Maybe, just maybe, someone near the top realized at least some of the complexity of displacing pilots that I've just outlined and are looking for a less onerous and more workable solution. Fool hardy to hope that they've done the analysis that a common line pilot is capable of, I know, but it might make at least a little sense to find a different tact than they seemed intent on taking.
01-22-2012 | 02:22 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
From: EWR B737FO
We're all so eager to hear that the company is delaying the opening of new bases, has anyone pondered what Jay and jay will be serving the company on a silver platter in exchange for them to delay. Im sure it will cost something. Why would the company now that the TPA has expired NOT move forward with the MASTER BUSINESS PLAN. careful what you wish for guys...... Just saying
01-22-2012 | 02:29 PM
#13
New Hire
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
01-22-2012 | 02:39 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 5
From: 787 Capt.
Good luck with training all these guys who might get displaced. This is in addition to the tsunami of training around the corner for replacing the 65ers. But hey. tK hired a few more PIs. That should solve it. Keep in mind if you call in sick the night before a training date that might delay your class several weeks. wink!
01-22-2012 | 04:22 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 0
From: 787 Captain
What do you mean by "directly supporting L-UA"? Any extension to the TPA involving domicile issues affects L-UA and L-CAL. Is there something else going on too?
01-22-2012 | 04:52 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
From: EWR B737FO
Didn't mean to infer anything else other than the domicile moves, how its done and the L-CAL bid release is tied to the TPA extension discussions that hopefully will ease the domicile transition for all and provide protections ( furlough protections/ block hours )for UA pilots that are already in the CAL contract. Of course domicile protection is not in either contract...
01-23-2012 | 12:55 PM
#17
Banned
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 690
Likes: 0
From: IAH 737 CA
Define delayed? What I've gotten from my LC is that both MCs are working to ease the transition of the inevitable via TDY or other methods that will help all... the timing for base fills is summer or fall, which seems late to need. Also, told that contractural rights /concessions etc...are not on the table. A bid will need to come out soon regardless..
C02 stipulates two bids per calendar year, one in the first six, one in the second six with no more than 8 months between the two bids. This gives the MEC and mgmt till somtime in March to produce another bid.
Last edited by EWR73FO; 01-23-2012 at 01:08 PM.
01-23-2012 | 01:03 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 880
Likes: 0
Latest from the rumor mill.... Cal bid coming soon and will show 160-180 vacancies. Will continue to go through UA furloughs until all have been contacted. After that hire off street. Why you ask? UA will start recalling this Fall. This was stated last week in a rather important mgmt meeting by a UA type.
Also, no new bases this bid.
Messenger only
Also, no new bases this bid.
Messenger only
01-23-2012 | 08:19 PM
#19
work nights and weekends
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: United SFO B-737
When I finished class in Nov the word from some union, UA & CO management was that UAL wanted to start recalls end of Jan and CO manpower planning asked for it to be delayed till fall. That was to keep trained "New Hires" on the line till summer was over. Overall manpower management guy is CO. The recall notice had to start by 1 Feb to achieve the UA goal of having recalled pilots on the line by May.
Guess CO manpower won the argument.
Guess CO manpower won the argument.
01-24-2012 | 03:22 AM
#20
Redeye avoider
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 933
Likes: 14
From: 737 Captain
When I finished class in Nov the word from some union, UA & CO management was that UAL wanted to start recalls end of Jan and CO manpower planning asked for it to be delayed till fall. That was to keep trained "New Hires" on the line till summer was over. Overall manpower management guy is CO. The recall notice had to start by 1 Feb to achieve the UA goal of having recalled pilots on the line by May.
Guess CO manpower won the argument.
Guess CO manpower won the argument.
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