I am a realist. I see the com coming out of UAL MEC and it doesn't look like there is any effort to get a common strategy for a joint CBA.

It's like the "lone wolf" or something.

I think the UAL MEC and the CAL MEC needs to go on an island in the middle of the pacific somewhere and fix their problems and come out totally on the same page. If I see that, then I think there is hope. Lacking that.............my attitude will likely continue to suck.

I've got this one covered.

Management wanted to get rid of this because it was pssing off the pilots. It was more of an irritant and a distaction so they wanted to dump it. ALPA won a victory in principle only. Not really sure where this would eventually lead to in 20 years after all the 767-200's are gone, but likely we'd all be retired.

Management would not have won, and they know it, but they wouldn't have lost any money either. They would have reimbursed ALPA some legal expenses and singed an "i am so sorry about that condolance and cease/desist" letter.

It likely saved management money to settle it because it would have distracted their legal braintrust during negotiations. This gives them time to concentrate on how to continue to outsource more pilot jobs and screw us out of more retirement money. Maybe they've got the next Aer Lingus out-sourcing program on the way...........

[QUOTE=Ottolillienthal;1171319]I've got this one covered.
You really think they try to avoid ****ing us off? Let alone spend $40M to avoid it?? Can you think of other ways they avoid ****ing the pilots off? How's PBS working for you? How about reassignments? Bad excuse and it doesn't fly.

Do your really think they paid $40M to dump an irritant and distraction???? Wow.

No, you 'won' nothing. You were paid $40M. ALPA did collect dues on that right?

???

So they chose to pay $40M RIGHT AWAY? Makes NO sense.

Now I KNOW you're kidding! First, they don't have a braintrust! Second, THEIR WHOLE STRATEGY IS TO DELAY THE NEGOTIATIONS! The welcome excuses for being distracted!

I'll admit that they prioritize this very high!

The bottom line is that there is NO rational reason for the company to settle that grievance for $40M. There were other considerations that your MC and MEC (maybe) know.

That's an interesting observation you make about the UAL BOD.

There have been a several posts in the last few days that contrast the communications (or lack of) from each master chairman. Specifically, there is criticism that a joint statement from each MEC wasn't released to the pilots.

As you know, the UAL MEC ALPA Master Chairman is a voting member of the United Continental Holdings BOD and has a front row seat to the "latitude" you suggest the CEO has been given.

When contrasting communications, do you want action based on insight and opinion taken from the corporate board, or information provided to the CAL MC by the Sr. VP of flight operations and semi-frequent communication with the CEO? Personally, I'd want action based on a macro-view of the company's BOD level strategic initiatives.

Does your Jay have a front row seat to that?

My point is that UAL MEC may be getting more detailed briefings and information than the CAL MEC. When there is a conflict in the quality of negotiations expressed between the two Master Chairman, I'll take the guy with better information.

Good points on information flow. So, are you saying J Heppner has access to all BOD deliberations, discussions as an 100 % voting member.

Yes, however as a labor advocate I'd imagine he's often in the minority vote.

United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - Board of Directors

Interesting thoughts and discussions.

Just my .06, since I've already put in a couple of .02's. Friday is the fork in the road the way I see it. We are either going to move forward together, or we are going to crater this deal into a USAirways moment that we will never fully recover from.

Trying VERY hard to see this from both perspectives, and put myself in the CAL pilots shoes. One, I too would be rather uncomfortable that the "other side" puts out a call for release without the knowledge of my own MEC. Obviously none of us have all the facts. As a UAL pilot, I too would rather have had your MC and MEC on board when this decision was reached. At this point, my frustration is SO GREAT with the stalling tactics of the "company" that we work for that I'm just excited to get some ACTION. In my opinion, and my opinion only, we've been enduring for FAR too long once a week meetings, discussions on work rules, large groups, small groups, retrenching back to 2010 positions by the company, broken promises, Jr managers showing up instead of promised Sr managers, NOBODY showing up even though they are on their home turf, etc. etc. etc.

When the company wants something from us, it takes a couple of weeks to re-write the whole contract. We could have the entire thing done by April 30th if they wanted to, so I simply bristle at any/every suggestion by ANYBODY that things are progressing well. I'm firmly of the belief that they are toying with us, and will continue to do so until forced to actually negotiate.

So where does this leave us? Jay Heppner puts out his Blastmail calling for release. I don't know Capt. Heppner personally, but I do know that he is uniquely positioned now as the most informed pilot at either property having been the head of the Negotiating Committee and now the MC. He is intimately familiar with the mediator and probably has the clearest idea of their thinking of anyone on the combined MEC. My GUESS is that he has a very good reason for calling for this action NOW.

I'm trying to consider what I would want if the shoe were on the other foot and it was the CAL MEC/MC who put out the word for word blast mail that we all received. After much debate, I think I would feel the same way that I feel now, which is GOOD. Let's GET GOING. If we don't get released, we don't get released. If we DO get released and we end up with Pres. Obama not allowing a strike, we are under the direction of the PEB, and I'm convinced that would be a GOOD thing based on AMR's situation in years past.

I can appreciate the apprehension of the CAL pilots with the announcement that was made without the apparent knowledge and support of the CAL MEC. However, I hope that we can rally behind the message as ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It's TIME. If not now, what are we waiting for? I'm finished with excuses, I'm finished with waiting, and I'm finished with updates. The company has shown their true colors. I'm sure the company is hoping HARD that the CAL MEC will split with the request for a demand to contract end, as this would be the ultimate symbol that we are too busy fighting each other to bother fighting them. I know all the history of how we got here. I'm familiar with all the grievances, deals, TPA's, discussions etc., and to me, none of that matters anymore. It's what happens Friday that charts the path for our combined pilot group, our contract, and our future. If the shoe were on the other foot, I feel confident that I would spend tomorrow making sure that reps KNOW that I want to support the demand for a contract by June 1st or request release on April 30th. I hope my brothers and sisters at CAL will join us.

I probably could have said all that in 2 sentences, but I was on a roll.....

good roll! Question for the UA peeps, have any of you talked to your reps about Heppners message? Reason I ask is I have heard that not only was the CAL MEC not informed until about 15 minutes before it went out, but that members of the UA MEC were also not made aware until shortly before either.

I agree with you 100%.

Well said...and I fully support a request for release IF thats the best strategy to get us an industry leading joint contract. Im not sure given differing MEC views on how negotiations are progressing and because WE (CAL) were not engaged on this gamechanging decision. What I don't understand is why JH and the UA MEC did not communicate with the other partners in this joint negotiation. All i can surmise is a complete distrust and lack of respect for the CAL MEC and a minimizing of the importance of the CAL pilot group as a whole in achieving an industry leading joint contract. Obviously, UA MEC believes it doesn't need CALs support to get a contract..otherwise why go solo and not talk with the formation