"The outcome, or fallout, of Friday's MEC meeting will be the defining moment for the CAL MEC......"

100% ABSOLUTE TRUTH - my co-worker! :)

The UA MEC needs to get real on the CAL pilots profit sharing.

We were entitled to it and we had every right to negotiate for it.

If the UA MEC feels otherwise, then their individual greed is the hold back.

Time to go out and get two seperate contracts for now and do a re-set some time next year. Let the UAL MEC go out and get it's own CBA, and let the CAL guys go out and get theirs.

Get enough similarities and commonalities that would bring about some pairity to level the playing field and that would facilitate a more neutral negotiating enviornment for a JCBA in 2013. 2012 is over for a JCBA.

It's every man for themselves for 2012.................

This is right on....let's talk about it.

1. The CAL MEC is made up of some dis-jointed people who aren't paying attention. Look at Guam: They are an island completely out of touch. Their issues are usually way off of what mainland pilots are worrying about. They have little voting power. Look at CLE: they've had their head in the sand ever since Blackford was their CA rep. They got Persons now and he's just a little lamb not wanting to cause a fuss or rock the boat. LAX: they got some loser FO rep who doesn't know how to spell ALPA much less how to get the MEC unified. He's being led around by the two clueless IAH reps. One of which was fired from SPSC chair, and the other I've never met. Seriously; wouldn't know him if I ran into him in an elevator. I think he's on leave or something for the past year. he's a rep on paper only. Flight Instructors: Well, when was the last time the old Ops Group did anything remotely resembling unionism? They pick up trips left and right to "save" the company. Sort of a joke. Never see a union pin on a flight instrucotor.

2. COM discipline: gotta have it. *** are these clowns doing? Lets forget about the JCBA until we get that figured out.

[QUOTE=Ottolillienthal;1171271]UAL has more SCAB's than does Legacy CAL. Count em up.

Don't bash the CAL pilots or unnececarilly challenge our "manhood." We're ready to do what we need to do.

QUOTE]

That's not even close to true .. I have the lists. Not gonna quibble over that though. As far as negotiating two seperate agreements, you MUST realize that this is our one chance to actually leverage the company and get an industry leading contract ? Big summer schedule, thinly spread manning. If we stay united as a pilot group, we can get our contract. Let the gnashing of teeth begin later when he join seniority lists.

Otto,
I agree that CAL Pilots (myself being one of them) were "entitled" to Profit Sharing.. but with a caveat.

Profit Sharing is something that we are entitled to, within our CBA. Our CBA has expired. The question should be- should the Profit Sharing expire? Our Perdeim based upon our CBA doesn't expire.. our payrates don't expire.. why did the Profit Sharing expire?
I don't know.

I do know that when you're in Contract Negotiations.. you shouldn't make sides deals concerning items within the CBA.

Also, giving up a 76-200 grievance for Profit Sharing was Apples for Oranges. Had we filled a grievance concerning Profit Sharing and the end result was reinstatement of Profit Sharing, no argument from me (and others).. and had the 76-2 grievance resulted in a 76-2 solution, fine.
Instead, we gave the company a PR Victory (they needed to find a way to give us (CAL Pilots)) Profit Sharing otherwise they would have had egg on their face on the 14th of Feb. Also, had we not have gotten it, even more pilots would have ****ed than are now.

When you say "we had every right to negotiate for it" you open a hell of a big can of worms.
Guess UAL MEC now has the "right" to negotiate for certain things for their side, even if it hurts Unity and the ability to achieve a Joint CBA?

This was a road that I didn't want to go down, yet I fear that my predictions may be coming through.
But make no mistakes about this- there is ALOT of blame to go around. Both MEC's, ALPA National and of course.. The Company.

Sucks

Motch

PS>
The lack of Profit Sharing is easily remedied by having a cut out that gave us our EARNED Profit Sharing for 2010 as an added part to our retro.
Also, the loss of those 76-2's is adversely affecting the 756 pilot group. Guys who use to get some widebody flying have lost that, and therefore have lost pay.

When the CBA expired, the CAL pilots were simply operating in status quo. The cba is essentially frozen. However, the MEC does reserve the right to negotiate side letters of agreement. This is normal and I beleive that is what the CAL MEC did. I think it would be great to get a full cba in section six. but if you can't, and both sides agree. a side letter may adress a key issue.

The side letter negotiated took care of profit sharing for the 2011 calendar year. It expired previously. There was a reason CAL management would not extend it further or indefinitely. They saw an opportunity to trade for something down the road. Essentially it was a win for both CAL management and the CAL pilots.

The CAL pilots traded a worthless grievance that would have resulted in very little for some real money that would benefited all the CAL pilots. It was a good trade.

[QUOTE=Pilotbiffster;1171278]I see leverage in schedule/pilot manpower yes (lack of pilots).

But, I don't see enough unity to use that leverage succesfully.

Too many idiots at botht the UAL table and CAL table.

Where is ALPA National????? Charlie Palmers again.....................

I do see enough leverage for UAL to go out and get a CBA, and for CAL to go out and get one. No way Obama lets us walk. He's too scared of economic numbers in the short run to mess with this. He won't do it unless it's a sure-thing/slam dunk. If the white house sends out signals that it is aware of our problems and is prepared to let us walk, then naturally things change..............Obama.....what say you?

Seriously? First, your CBA didn't expire - it became amendable. Your previous profit sharing had a specific end date...note that UAL's CBA is also amendable, but our profit sharing doesn't have a specific end date. Those are completely different situations. The reason it wasn't perpetual in your contract is that you DIDN'T PAY FOR IT! You traded it for some other contractual improvements! It couldn't have happened any other way.

Secondly, a union my have the 'right' to negotiate side letters, but we also have a T&PA that restricts our 'rights'. THAT is the issue of the grievance.

You THINK it would be great to get a full CBA in section 6??!!?? Are you F'n kidding? It's not great, it's IMPERATIVE! What limit would you propose for these side letters? How about if we agree to fly the 787's for less than your negotiated rate? How about if we do the same with the 777? Heck, maybe we'll do it for the whole fleet! Can you see the idiocy of such a process???? THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE T&PA!

I think your attitude SUCKS.