Ah, patience grasshopper, Hepner is playing this like a fine fiddle. He has Pierce and Moak in a box, if it was left up to them there would never be a release. A few weeks to let the witches brew does not really matter. Getting the concessionists on board, willingly or not, is just brilliant. Call it games if you want, but this is how it is done. Who knows, the company may be willing to negotiate now that Hepner has given them a glimpse into the future. He has moved the ball, even the CAL rank and file appreciate his smoking out the miscreants. I don't think JH gives a hoot who get's the credit, he is not a chest beater.

The specter of labor unrest this summer at UCH, with the loss of bookings will do more for the negotiating process than anything else. The public does not know anything about the NMB or RLA, all they hear is there may be a strike. Why take a chance, book another airline. That loss of revenue has a beneficial effect for negotiations. For this management it is only about the numbers, unlike Ferris and Lorenzo who were ideologues, well maybe not Ferris, he was just stupid.

You have a leader now, rally around him and this will get done.

Baron50

It's unfortunate that you feel you've been quoted out of context, but you won't catch me using the word optimistic, not even cautiously, with regard to a JCBA, as long as JP "represents" the L-CAL pilots.

In the same way that reps from CAL LECs have all been chilled, JH has now fallen under JP's hypnotic power. Was it the french wine? Or that previously avoided one on one meeting?

Well I agree that I like the latest message but why does it seem like you are always lost in 1985 and always ready to beat you chest regarding that time frame. It really was not that great of time and many feel we took a bit of a beating when the brown suiters were collapsing at the end.

Worried about the public and bookings, please give me a break. You give this company too much credit and the public for that matter.

However maybe we will get this done dispite those involved.

You are dead on! Heppner screwed the pooch on this one. You don't use a howitzer (like publically asking for a release) to "smoke out" JP or Moak. Heppner beat his chest with the release and then shrinked away and caved to a milqtoast like pierce. What happens the next time when we really need to ask for a release. The pilots yawn, the press yawns, pierce yawns and everyone says "are you for real this time or are you going to cave again."

Asking for a release and knowing you aren't going to get one during an election year was just plain folly! Heppner was beating his chest and used this as a political tool. Unfortunately it had the same effect as a "Hats Off" switch. Shame on him!

I guess the head in the sand approach is working for you West Coast guys. ORD and points East find the sand a little harder. I'm not going to buy your "The specter of labor unrest this summer at UCH, " and "Why take a chance" approach. Too many summers have past with those little nuggets and we didn't get a contract - I don't think it worked slick. Why keep trying the same thing.

"Hepner is playing this like a fine fiddle. He has Pierce and Moak in a box." You put these guys on a pedestal like great Chess players and I don't like telling you this because it does weaken us all. They are not playing Chess, not even Checkers, but instead Marbles. These are the same guys playing with you and your families future. They continue to help the company keep money out of your pocket. You are an self described "Old Cap" so it doesn't matter to much, but what about those pulling gear for you? You want to cut them some slack and help them get a piece of the pie?

Good Cop/Bad Cop
 

What if LM & JP now tell UCH: "We barely headed off a disaster here, but we can't hold JH much longer. Don't make us throw up our hands and walk out. It will be his turn next."
Could that be the plan? :confused:

Thats the way I see it. At least, JH is exerting leverage instead of whining like school girls.

It blows my mind that ALPA has ultimate control of the situation and continually capitulates. We could shut down the air commerce overnight for the largest economy in the world. Yes, that would require ALPA wide unity and would be viewed negatively by lawyers and politicians. I guess the Boston Tea Partiers risked less..............

Carpe Diem

LM and JP are political climbers and with his actions JH is going along for the ride. The company probable thought it would play out this way and will now give us their answer DELAY,DELAY,DELAY.....................DELAY. Pierce has put the contract on the company's time table and LM and Heppner are joining him. You don't see anything wrong with this?

Every UAL and CAL pilot should be .....ed at the latest and demand that our LEC's hold the MEC chairman accountable. Start by calling and emailing your LEC rep's. Are you tired of being steamrolled - Do Something!!!!

Folly? You are right, JH asked for a release when he knew we aren't getting released. Why? Could it be he wanted to stop getting filtered by JP to the CAL MEC and get the two MECs together? The UAL MEC pleaded with Lee Joak back in February to hold combined MEC meetings. Looks like JH and the UAL MEC got what they wanted. How can you have unity if the elected leaders of the two groups don't even get together? It's now time for the CAL MEC to step up.

It's not a bad thing to get those truly elected by the pilots together to hash this out. And it is essential for us, all of us, to let our reps know how we feel.

Frats,

Big O

Those comments do not make much sense. How is the union helping the company “keep money out of our pockets?” Are you saying that if the union just plays ball with management, they will give everyone a raise for no good reason? Sorry, I think you may not understand what motivates them.

I am not sure how to “cut them some slack” this is not a junior versus senior issue, as you would introduce into this discussion, it’s about a pay raise for everyone. Are you saying a strike would hurt the junior more than the senior? That dog doesn’t hunt, obviously everyone will be affected differently. If you would like your particular seniority group to have a greater “piece of the pie” that is another thread entirely, I would rather have a bigger pie.

You ask, “Why keep trying the same thing.” Well, you may have missed it, but starting the process for a withdrawal of services is unlike anything that has been done before in this round of negotiations. The ancillary benefit is the cost to the corporation, that helps them do the math. I agree, picketing the terminal and inflatable pigs won’t get it anymore and the courts have taken away the other tools. If this wasn’t a bold move, why are you so exercised about it?

Your east versus west coast comment is divisive, we need to put the politics behind, it only creates discord and destroys unity while playing into management’s hands. Also, don’t you think calling someone “Slick” is a bit rude?

Baron50