I'm trying to see what you bring to the table to help the UAL/CAL pilots - I don't see anything. You walked into a good contract because your management wanted to make it work - not because LM did some fancy bargaining. I don't think he offered up the NWA pilots, but he didn't get in the way to protect their rights either. The NWA pilots had a gun to their heads and will never be your friend - they'll tolerate you though.

Believe it or not but the only thing the Delta pilot have on the UAL pilot is pay. We still beat you hands-down on working conditions. I believe your work rules may even be worst than CAL's, but we are going to fix CAL's and the pay issues as well.

LM is not the wizard you make him out to be. Have you noticed how the PAC funds have been decreasing since he took office. Your efforts to decertify ALPA may be wasted as LM is NOT doing a good job of representing the profession and is helping it die a slow death. We are 2 years into this and you think it's "chest thumping" that's delaying the process - enjoy your pat raise!

Hey Piña;

I'm not sure if by saying "the inverse is true", you mean to imply that tough unionism makes management respond in kind (get stingy, use aggressive junior man tactics to staff every weekend, decrease pay and whittle away at work rules) or not, but if that is what you meant I have to take issue based on personal experience. Combative unionism at either L-CAL or L-UAL factored in little and contributed nothing in the way of molding the current managerial philosophy. Maybe you can explain what you meant a little more?

If they're not making REAL progress on the contract, it will be obvious WELL BEFORE the 15 Jun deadline. THAT is when we press forward with (HOPEFULLY), or without, the CAL leadership. At that point, nobody will be able to claim ignorance, unfairness, surprise, or any other bs excuse.

I think this is playing out just fine for now.

There's no way this is NS... The posts are too short and he never says "you can't make this stuff up'.

Thanks for the huge thread drift. So far, LM has been a worthless a$$clown as far as I'm concerned.

Just make sure you don't sell out more scope on you're way to restoring the pay and working conditions of the industry.

We were kind of hoping you guys would put another rung in the ladder to help us with the climb.........:o

Hey Delta brothers, do you know what FLIBS means?

I thought the CAL guys were exaggerating when they warned us...sadly, they were not.

Well Baron like I said before I like that the mec's are at least sounding like they might work together as this is the only was we will have success, especially if we start talking a srike. If it would be one side it would not last 3 days.

Back to 1985 since you live in the past and always slapping yourself on the back on how great that was.

I do agree it was amazing that alpa did get us to go on strike considering all that was going on in the industry and all that was as stake, for that I commend them. It stops pretty quick after that however.

I felt like there was nothing won, please don't keep telling me how no pilots lost there job. We had jobs to begin with to not lose a job to me is not a success. We basically had the same contract offered prior to the strike that we settled on. By the way in case you forgot we also went back to work without some pilots. If you remember we left them to the court system. That was after the famous we won't go back without you comments. What our union meant to say was we won't go back without you unless it gets tough. It took some many months to get back on the property and many years to have seniority restored.

Since you brought up that group, 570, please remember we had some cross from that group also and yes more than the 4 the union always mentions. We also had quite a few from that group work both sides of the fence during the strike, something else that was not supposed to happen. I am not talking about dumpster work I am talking about agree to go to work and then using some lame excuse to delay, not something that was supposed to take place.

Then we had another group in training, the 539 and yes they were there to replace all the pilots. As it turned out they were put in front of only one group as replacments and yes they ended up being union members. Remember alpa talking about who would be considered a sc-- and how it kept changing? If you go to training was then if you complete training and then if you turn a wheeel and then if you turn a wheel after ioe, yea great if you were a sleez bag trying to climb over you fellow pilots.

We also even allowed brown suiters and fleet qual back into the union.

I felt the strike ended as the amnount of brown suiters that were pushing to go back and alpa realizing it would collapse. Nice unity.

As I look around the property and listen I see even less unity at this point and many more "groups" Can they get pulled together, maybe, but not without bot mec working together.

One last comment on unity. When I see some dal folks showing up in this discussion. I am confident that they will bring all of us boxes of donuts if we walk just like 1985. Yes that same unity that was tripping over themselves in the hopes that we never came out of bankruptcy. Oh yea unity, this is some "union" I don't know if you have ever belonged to another union or not but this one always feels more like a country club.

I was (and still AM) hoping the same thing! Unfortunately we're stuck with ANOTHER group of sr managers who are determined to save a buck off the backs of the employees instead of making WAY more money the hard way :( Sometimes I think we're actually cursed by the natural strength of our route structure and customer base. If these guys actually HAD to do a good job to make a profit I bet things would be different.

We shall see how this will go.

"but we are going to fix CAL's and the pay issues as well." Fix yous scope first. I would take CAL s pay and work rules over UALs work rules and SCOPE or lack of any day of the week.