756driver

"but we are going to fix CAL's and the pay issues as well." Fix your scope first. I would take CAL s pay and work rules over UALs work rules and SCOPE or lack of any day of the week

LeeMat

Houston we have problem! I will not take either. We are no longer in negotiations with a BK judge overseing a BK management team...notice I did not say a BK company.....Industry leading JCBA is all I will settle for!

1257

Exactly...

Baron50

Ah, the “glass half full - glass half empty” you and I.

You are not alone with feelings that “there was nothing won,” that view is shared by many. I will disagree, it just may be a case of where you were in life when the strike went down. The management types hated us, they hated the strike, and to this day think nothing was accomplished. The 570 / 539 groups certainly look at it differently than I do. No doubt they would have preferred not to have been put into those untenable positions. As a junior brown suiter, frustrated by years of stagnation, surpluses, furloughs and the Ferris threats, I was very satisfied the pilot culture had changed from the previous passive, “blue skies era” to active trade unionism. I suppose, one way to measure the success of a strike is “would you do it again.” I would not hesitate to say absolutely!

It seems everyone that was involved is a bit of a revisionist, not to say they are intentionally misleading, but memories fade and can be selective. For that reason, and the fact that I still have two file boxes of VHS video, as well as the 27th anniversary this month, I would like to correct a few items that you brought up.

First, the reason for the strike, as you correctly stated, was not about incumbent pay; that was already settled. It was one issue - would a B-scale merge at Captain - have the corrosive effect on unity to drag incumbent wages down in the future. The brown suiters were not being altruistic, they knew the consequences for them of the two tier pay scheme. Contrary to management thinking, we did not throw the young under the bus as they expected and the AA pilots had done. So, in this regard, we were successful, albeit management reinvented the b-scale with the RJ’s in the 90’s and ultimately succeeded in reducing pilot compensation.

Next is a fable, often repeated by the union haters, that the MEC told the 570 “we won’t go back without you,” That never happened, however, some rank and file may have said that in a strong emotional sign of support for what the 570 had done. If ALPA had made that promise, it would have resulted in an unfair labor practices win for the company. Legally, we could not have stayed on strike solely for the 570. We did not represent them under the RLA and they were aware of that fact. Our attorneys advised that their status would be decided by a court and that a NLRB decision, “New England Tank,” would likely prevail. Initially we won that issue, unfortunately the appeals court overruled the district court. Second guessing is easy, but in reality, there was no other alternative. We did not give up on the 570, they were hired and we negotiated their rightful longevity and seniority, in spite of the s__b lawsuits, it just took awhile longer. Very few 570’s thought a settlement, for what would have become a permanent B-scale, was a better alternative. And, some did cross the line, no doubt for all the same lame, weak and greedy reasons, but their percentages were similar to the incumbents.

Regarding the 539, in the fog of a strike, mistakes are made. In the days of 300 baud modems we had some misinformation floating around. People heard what they wanted to hear and a few in the leadership did not keep the message consistent. So, you are correct, it was messy, sorry. The people who went to work clearly understood what they were doing. The majority of 539 did exactly as they were told; not to cross the line. It did not matter what they signed or told the managers. Later in the strike, the concept of “not turn a wheel” was invented. This was part of an effort to recover some of these people for the next strike. If they were inside the fence on June 14, 1985, well…you decide.

I didn’t see that, certainly we all wanted it over. We could have continued the strike, and there would have been a few more crossers at the 30 day mark, but even in ‘85’ they could not train replacements quick enough to be a threat. We knew when we had to pull it down, we were not at that point when it ended. Unlike the CAL pilots, who were still on strike, we were not going to make the same mistake and walk off a cliff. We had accomplished the goal that we set at the beginning. The strike may have ended, but if you recall the fight did not end for another two years.

It was the emotional overhang of the strike that moved the pilots to donate a month’s salary to fund ESOP-I resulting in the dumping of Dick Ferris. That in turn ended the ill conceived Allegis travel company concept, a plan to siphon airline money into hotels and rent-a-cars rather than invest into the core airline business

We had all the same drama and politics back then, but we put all that aside for a common purpose. Guess what, the 85 strike must have left a mark, you all are still talking about it today.

Baron50

syd111

I think you have selective memory to make you feel better Baron, I guess that is fine, but yes I was right there on the line and do not remeber it the same as you.

As far as me talking about it today nope, only when it comes up from folks like you that continue to pat themselves on tha back.

I can't go over all this again, so go on beleive what you need to beleive to make yourself feel better.

Good luck.

Baron50

Ok, well someone has to do it, I am sure mankind will be better for your effort.

Baron50