No I get it. We have over 1400 United guys unemployed on this side due to the RJ scope clause. Everyone has a beer to cry into

J

 

Comair did this, and that worked out wonderful....

It doesnt work in the subcontracted industry, I wish it did, but anytime a group fights for these things, someone comes along and takes all their flying.

 

And the blame game continues...........

I think you'd have a hard time trying to convince ANY regional pilot that it's expected of the legacy pilot to improve the regional CBA as your above post indicates.

So you voted NO in the mid 90's on the "RJ's for heavy jets" exchange, as well as NO on contract 2000?

All the regional pilot wants is for the legacy to take back the scope they gave away. ESPECIALLY on the mid term ESOP and contract 2000.

And as another poster indicated, look what happens when a regional MEC negotiates a better CBA for the pilot group. Let' see, COMAIR, ACA, AWAC, Pinnacle..............

Stop venting your frustration/ire/angst on the regional pilots and focus on the REAL problems. 1) Legacy management and 2) ANY legacy pilot that's willing to exchange scope to get something back in the JCBA.

 

WHAT!?!? Wait a sec, you really wanna go down the road of comparing work rules for CAL vs. XJT? Go ahead: DH pay? Commuter missed trip? Sick note for a sick call? Training on days off? Line bidding vs PBS? Vacation drop?

Seriously, focus on YOUR contract and tighten scope! We've been telling you that for YEARS! If you don't or can't then don't blame us.

Scope is a Mainline self-inflicted wound, and nothing more!

 

"the worst day a legacy STILL beats the best day at a regional".

I'm a firm believer in that statement, even though I haven't made it to a legacy yet, I can't wait to validate it. And it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison when talking mainline vs. regional contracts. But what you're saying is sad but true.

Talk to ANY of the COEX/XJT guys that went over on the flow, schindlers's list, PIG, or otherwise. Do they regret going to CAL? Nope, as they shouldn't. Do they wish they could have taken the XJT workrules with them? I have yet to hear a single one say NO. Whenever I'm jumpseating on L-UAL, they don't seem to be too happy with A LOT of their workrules either, especially the NB pilots. Yep, I know they gave up A LOT during the BK. But it's STILL a legacy.

 

I obviously haven't made it to a major yet either, but last week when dining with a few XJT guys at the Soup Nazis in Terminal C, we struck up a conversation with a CAL crew, who said they were planning on hiring 45 a month starting in October. When they left the discussion of "Do you really want to go to the new United?" came up. Bitter pilots and employees, dragged out negotiations, inept management..... We came to the realization that, while working for a company that sells it's own tickets would be nice, it just isn't worth it until the contract is settled. And I'm not saying this to flame, I have a lot of friends over on the dark side who told me flat out "Don't come here, it isn't worth it".

And I say this not to *****, but to challenge. Raise the bar for your contract, tighten scope. Us 50 seat guys know our role of DAY, GRR and SBN turns. Please recognize your role as a major airline doing the majority of the flying! 99 percent of us at the regionals wish you nothing but the best for your contract!

 

I'd STILL go if given the chance. And it's another apples to oranges comparison. But it's not unlike it was for the guys going to NW before the merger. It was a crappy, terrible place to work, and the pilots would tell you that. But it's STILL a legacy. With that in mind, it can't get ANY crappier than it is, the ONLY thing it can do is get better. Everything is relative of course.

Whereas being at a regional is NOTHING but a downward slide. Sure, our workrules have gotten better since Spring of 2007 with all the MOU's and LOA's that have come along. But when Larry (and Jeffrey) officially started the split of XJT and mamma CAL and undo all the work that Gordon Bethune put into the CAL/COEX product, that was the start of it. But we're STILL behind on pay thanks to LOA 9, and XJT is NOTHING like it was before that. Excellent MX, crew schedulers that ACTUALLY worked with you most of the time, dispatchers that knew what they were doing, XJT handling the ground ops. Now, not so much. We're just another sh1tty regional. As opposed to what could be considered the valedictorian at summer school when it was strictly XJT d.b.a Continental Express.

 

Short of scabbing, never pass up a seniority number. The guy who sucks it up for a few months or even years and jumps to a major as soon as he gets an offer will enjoy seniority for the rest of his career over those who wait. If, on the other hand you have a simultaneous offer from any other major short of US Air, take it. This place, despite all of the potential, truly is a mess.

 

However, I have other skills outside of aviation, and while I'd like to make a career out of it I really don't need to. I try to raise the bar here at XJT, but the fear of being 'Comair-ed' really strikes at people here. It's time for this industry to put on it's big boy pants and sack up. Heck, after tue news of Comair broke it took only a few hours for our guy BH to put out a statement, which containted to words "cost competitive" eight or nine times. Like the saying goes, I'd rather die on my feet than live my life on my knees!

 

We are all LIVING THE DREAM baby!!!! I knew I should have stayed in gynocologist school.
It can and will be better. This last decade has killed us all......major, regional, we have all suffered immensely. Stop attacking each other as it is airline management like Jeff and Glenn, major world events,(and maybe some poor union leadership) that has put us where we are.
It was always the progression to work your way up to the majors, just like in baseball. We can't fault the guys aspiring to be a 787 captain for starting out in an EMB RJ. How else do you learn your trade? We ALL need to fight for better pay, work rules , etc. ALL OF US!!!!!!!! This is an industry wide problem, not regional vs. mainline, not company x or company y or legacy this or that. Scope is everything , and I don't mean a cool refreshing mouth wash.