Retro will hold up TA
 

The $400 million that the company has offered up for retro, bonus whatever you want to call it will be going to arbitration to decide how to divy it up, as the MECs can't come up with a consensual formula. The L-UAL MEC has decided that their constituents should be afforded approximately 70% of the monies. Haven't seen their formula but if it comes out of arbitration like that the TA will be voted down by the L-CAL MEC. For those of you who claim to be in the know call your sources and verify.

If it is not full retro it should be voted down anyhow. I would never let the mec's decide how to hand out the money.

Why are they wasting their efforts and time on something that will not pass? Even if the UAL side received 100% I would vote against it.

My bet it that it will favor senior pilots coming up on 65, trying to buy them off and throw B3s under the landing gear.

Scope change? NO!
Less than 100% Retro since ORIGINAL contract amendable dates? NO!!!!!

What is the proposal with the $400 mil?
I know it's too low, but what is the rumor about dividing it?

If captains got 60% and FO's 40% and I use 12000 pilots (6000 in each seat). I know these are rough numbers.

I show $4000.00 per captain and $2666 per FO. :eek:
What a joke. What an insult.

I'll take full retro. Prepare to vote no.

The company was smart in that they wanted nothing to do with dividing it up. They can delay but not have to take the blame for it. Offer the monies then walk away. So the pilot groups must decide how to split it and the formula MUST be in the TA. Each group wants what they think is best for their group so no consensus will be reached will go to exhibited arbitration. Not a rumor by the way.

Double check your math.

What's a B3?

You moved the decimel point over one too many.

"Bottom Third" = B3's or those hired in 2005 and on.

Didn't want to get back on here.. but this is a good/sore subject.

Since the "rumor" of $400 mil came out (LA FO REP, CAL Side).. I haven't met one person who was ok with it. Most have said NO.. some **** NO, and one said Maybe, depends on the rest...

Now, if it is 400 mil to be divided up between the two sides, it's a no brainer that it won't pass.
The numbers are in the 20 grand area for FO's and 40 grand for Capt's - if you were to divide by 11000, and then split the amount with 10 grand more for Capts, 10 grand less for FO's.

NO

Now.. something that "could" happen, if there was a miscommunication from the LA Rep-
If it is $400 mil for the CAL Side, and some unknown number for the UAL Side.. maybe the amount will work.

Lastly, UNLESS we know the exact amount by the time the TA is published, it's also a NO Vote. I will not be Voting YES on any JCBA that has "open" sections, or items "To Be Determined Later.." By ALPA or anyone else~

Just my .02cents!
Motch

Or those hired 1995 and on depending on which outfit you are talking about.

Thx.........

Actually, it was a limitation on my calculator. It can't go that high. Sorry.

[Quote] Now.. something that "could" happen, if there was a miscommunication from the LA Rep-
If it is $400 mil for the CAL Side, and some unknown number for the UAL Side.. maybe the amount will work [Quote]



Nope $400 mil for all. I've been a wait and see kinda guy but I think the fence sitting time is over. NO, ****** No, Hell No

[QUOTE=Kayco;1263483][Quote] Now.. something that "could" happen, if there was a miscommunication from the LA Rep-
If it is $400 mil for the CAL Side, and some unknown number for the UAL Side.. maybe the amount will work And you know this for sure, for certain? And how?

It wouldn't surprise me, but our union leadership can't be this out of touch with the pilot group.

Still think the "retro/bonus/whatever" should be divided up in two amounts..............one for CA's and one for FO's............the same amount for ALL CA's and the same for ALL FO's. That way no one can complain about getting cheated. If they start dividing it up based on years/time/work rules/longevity/hours, etc., it could get REAL nasty, and then it will take forever to get this done. JMHO

It'll pass. You offer $30k to pilots (who don't frequent these boards) just before Christmas and they'll take it, regardless of what they think they're owed.

Think your wrong on that apc, but vote how you want.

So...just upgraded=windfall, just downgraded=screw job, ual been with an amendable contract for just shy of 3 yrs, cal just shy of 4. Cal FO's were on b-scale for the first five years, Ual pilots getting bigger raise, etc. It's not that simple, we could go on forever.

This is an idea:

CAL CA on amendable date * days between amend and DOS = Z
CAL FO on amendable date * days between amend and DOS = Y
UAL CA on amendable date * days between amend and DOS = X
UAL FO on amendable date * days between amend and DOS = W

Z * (average CAL CA pay rate raise) = A
Y * (average CAL FO pay rate raise) = B
X * (average UAL CA pay rate raise) = C
W * (average UAL FO pay rate raise) = D

(A+B) / (A+B+C+D) = CAL % of Days
(C+D) / (A+B+C+D) = UAL % of Days

Total $$ pot * CAL % of Days = CAL $$
Total $$ pot * UAL % of Days= UAL $$

CAL $$ * .6 = CAL CA $$
CAL $$ * .4 = CAL FO $$
UAL $$ * .6 = CAL CA $$
UAL $$ * .4 = CAL FO $$

CAL CA $$ / (total number of CA each day between amend and DOS) = CAL CA daily rate
CAL FO $$ / (total number of CA each day between amend and DOS) = CAL FO daily rate
UAL CA $$ / (total number of CA each day between amend and DOS) = CAL CA daily rate
UAL FO $$ / (total number of CA each day between amend and DOS) = CAL FO daily rate

Take daily rate * days in that position between your amend date and DOS = your $$

(personal opinion, but only put it in retirement account that way our elder can only enjoy it if they retire) P.S. don't want to kick you out, and I do thank you for your service

Nice try. It's not a vote, but it is an opinion.

Pound freaking sand on that....I didn't work my ass off due to short fing staffing to evenly split retro with a guy who drops everything because his wife is a doctor. It's W2 or a no vote.

Was not "trying " anything like I said vote how you like.

Anyone see the pay rates? are they near Deltas?

No one outside the "sequestered" has seen anything.

When there's a TA, we'll see "something".

Where the heck are you getting this stuff??? Making it up as you go along??
Anything been put out I missed?
Have you forgotten about the 1.6 billion the BOD has already (stock) approved to be distributed to the pilots????

J

Right on the money socal might as well just sit tight and see what shows up, I couldn't agree more.

Lol. You are naive. First of all, you are not getting retro. You are getting a signing bonus. There is a huge difference. It will probably have nothing to do with how much you work. You should not have worked your ass off. That's your own fault.

I think it is highly likely this whole $400 million rumor is just that. Some knucklehead FO rep wants the world to know he was privy to some nugget of knowledge that nobody else is when in fact he he isn't even in the circle of trust. At best he was given misinformation just to stir the pot

This is no different than all those guys claiming to have the "MEC chairman on the jumpseat" spreading stories.

Regardless of the amount set aside, it better be based on w2.

Sage Syd....
Anything else matches that of pi$$ing in the wind.

Till then.

Don't know if that was sarcasm or not but I have not heard anything on that.:confused:

Actually, there is a difference.
If I claim to have had the MEC Chair on my jumpseat, it's easy to prove/disprove. And either way, it's just "My Opinion/Hearsay" as to what I post. I'm also a nobody (cue the wise ass remakes in.. 3, 2, 1- !LOL)
Now if a Rep make a statement, or tells someone something who then posts it on a board (with his real name..) and he also verifies that statement.. there is probably some truth to it. And he's a standing Rep who represents a certain amount of pilots~

IF the Rep was purposely given wrong info.. that is troublesome.
IF the Rep made it up,... that is troublesome.

I hope the LA FO Rep heard wrong or something has since changed concerning the $400 mil.. we will (hopefully) know next month.

Motch

PS> When I spoke to my Rep about this, she would neither confirm or deny the rumor (due to the "gag" order). Interestingly enough, the timeline did come up- she told me that the "Union" was hoping for a TA by mid Sept.. but that Oct might be more realistic.
Well, it's past mid Sept and no TA.
What do we do in mid Oct when we still don't have a TA and no timeline?

And there in lies a major problem between the two Unions.
You want W2's to be the deciding factor?

As a CAL Pilot, I don't want that because it rewards the scumbags who picked up open time/VJM @150%.

Also.. what about the pay disparity between us and you guys?

What about the fact that we (CAL) have had a longer amendable date as compared to you guys?

What about the sacrifices you guys (UAL) did over the past decade to keep UAL afloat?

As you can see.. too many variables. But whatever "they" decide, it better be known to us all; with regards to the amount we get if we agree to whatever POS JCBA "they" try to sell us.

Motch

Talked to my LEC rep right after reading this. He confirmed that this is unconfirmed BS...

lets just wait and see, there isn't any sense in getting all riled up over these school yard rumors ....

Here is what I heard from a guy who's sister is dating a chief pilots cousin and she flew with a guy who sat next to a flight attendant who heard this from a guy who knows a bunch of stuff about this deal. "All of the retro is going to the LUAL side. The LCAL guys are going to be stapled to the bottom of the list and they will take a pay cut to boost the LUAL guys pay rates. Also all L-CAL guys are going to have to forfeit any future vacation time for the next five years so that the L-UAL guys can have more time off. And finally the L-CAL guys are going to have to pay for the L-UAL guys medical and dental benefits. Also the L-CAL guys are going to have carry not roll CARRY the L-UAL guys bags to and from the hotel van anytime they are ridding with them and that the L-UAL guys are getting better uniforms than the L-CAL guys."

You can take all of that to the bank because you read it on the internet..;)

The longer this takes, the more expensive full retro gets, meaning W2. We can't leave it up to the MEC's, that is a mess, been there, done that.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, no signing bonus, full retro, or it's a no!

Yeah, it's my fault lines are built to 85 plus hours through most of the year. WHO's naive?

Full and W2 retro or no vote.

He is a captain, hence this ridiculousness.