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10-16-2012 | 04:34 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 774
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calm down everyone. yes this is accurate info as the email says but it also says this term sheet may or may not have been passed on to management during the negotiation process. It is unclear by whom and how this term sheet was released. For all anyone knows this could have been part of a mock negotiation within the negotiation committee that some yahoo pulled out of the trash can.
10-16-2012 | 05:35 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
The negotiating committee was sent in to get the best deal they could and hopefully the MEC will put aside their personal bias and vote up or down according to how close the TA is to what they think the rank and file want. The mods should be congratulated for shutting down the thread because to debate something that is based on “leaked out info” that may have some truth and is not in its final and concrete form is purely conjecture and speculation. Let’s see what the deal is before there is debate and a vote taken. There will be plenty of time to debate the pros and cons.
Let's not see what the deal is before there is debate and a vote. let's state our minimum standards and then measure those standards against what we know to be true and accurate.
There will NOT be plenty of time for debating the pros and cons. This will be a rush job with an effective date of Jan 1, 2013. The union has had this deal since July and still no VOTE from the MEC...........Even if I get it tomorrow, I'll need 2 weeks to read it before I can even make a list of questions.
Mark my words............we'll be rushed and there will be an "invented emergency" that forces us to accept it. Just like POS 02...........here we go again!
10-16-2012 | 05:42 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 0
From: A Nobody
Lerxst
"If that is what you are hanging your hat on to feel superior to the CAL pilots, fine"
No my fine dude friend I have no vision of being superior to any pilot of any airline. I am just tired after almost 35 years of this stuff. Blabber mouth pilots who would complain if they had a new home and car negotiated into their contract. "It is too small," or "my neighbor, the doctor, got granite counter tops..."
Dude this contract isn't the end of anyone's world and quite frankly our respective MECs have done the best job I have ever seen in my contract history here at UAL. Right now I am waiting for the complete contract to review and also thank my reps and our Jay for all their hard work on our behalf.
Superior? Nope! Thankful? Yes!
"If that is what you are hanging your hat on to feel superior to the CAL pilots, fine"
No my fine dude friend I have no vision of being superior to any pilot of any airline. I am just tired after almost 35 years of this stuff. Blabber mouth pilots who would complain if they had a new home and car negotiated into their contract. "It is too small," or "my neighbor, the doctor, got granite counter tops..."
Dude this contract isn't the end of anyone's world and quite frankly our respective MECs have done the best job I have ever seen in my contract history here at UAL. Right now I am waiting for the complete contract to review and also thank my reps and our Jay for all their hard work on our behalf.
Superior? Nope! Thankful? Yes!
10-16-2012 | 05:47 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
From: B787 CA - SFO
Lerxst
"If that is what you are hanging your hat on to feel superior to the CAL pilots, fine"
No my fine dude friend I have no vision of being superior to any pilot of any airline. I am just tired after almost 35 years of this stuff. Blabber mouth pilots who would complain if they had a new home and car negotiated into their contract. "It is too small," or "my neighbor, the doctor, got granite counter tops..."
Dude this contract isn't the end of anyone's world and quite frankly our respective MECs have done the best job I have ever seen in my contract history here at UAL. Right now I am waiting for the complete contract to review and also thank my reps and our Jay for all their hard work on our behalf.
Superior? Nope! Thankful? Yes!
"If that is what you are hanging your hat on to feel superior to the CAL pilots, fine"
No my fine dude friend I have no vision of being superior to any pilot of any airline. I am just tired after almost 35 years of this stuff. Blabber mouth pilots who would complain if they had a new home and car negotiated into their contract. "It is too small," or "my neighbor, the doctor, got granite counter tops..."
Dude this contract isn't the end of anyone's world and quite frankly our respective MECs have done the best job I have ever seen in my contract history here at UAL. Right now I am waiting for the complete contract to review and also thank my reps and our Jay for all their hard work on our behalf.
Superior? Nope! Thankful? Yes!
Absolutely agree with you. We each have one vote, I hope we use them well for the betterment of our collective futures.
10-16-2012 | 05:50 PM
#15
APC co-founder
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,853
Likes: 0
From: B777
I know it's hard to believe, but I'm not on every union's mailing list. Didn't get the memo (in my best Dr. Evil voice).
The portion of the forum rules that covers this is:
The owners of Airline Pilot Central Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
The owners of Airline Pilot Central Forums reserve the right to remove any user for any reason....
...Site Administrators and Moderators have the final say in editing or removing posts from this forum.
There are many, many scenarios that would make it impossible to write specific rules for, but the text above can be read as "we reserve the right to use good judgement". Our "judgement" can generally be interpreted to mean we that may want to hedge liability, prevent damage to a pilot's livelihood, prevent the a pilot's personal information from being divulged, or avoid hosting a company's or union's confidential information. That's certainly not a comprehensive list, but you get the idea and we have been consistent there for going on 7 years.
I completely understand that our ability to use judgement is at direct odds with your desire to pass judgment.
At this time, and until the CAL/UAL TA is made public in it's entirety by both MECs, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I see no policy of APC preventing the discussion of truthful and accurate info that was either intentionally, or unintentionally "leaked."
The owners of Airline Pilot Central Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
The owners of Airline Pilot Central Forums reserve the right to remove any user for any reason....
...Site Administrators and Moderators have the final say in editing or removing posts from this forum.
I completely understand that our ability to use judgement is at direct odds with your desire to pass judgment.
At this time, and until the CAL/UAL TA is made public in it's entirety by both MECs, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by HSLD; 10-16-2012 at 09:19 PM.
10-17-2012 | 03:15 AM
#16
Fore!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 505
Likes: 0
From: 756 F/O
...........Even if I get it tomorrow, I'll need 2 weeks to read it before I can even make a list of questions.
Mark my words............we'll be rushed and there will be an "invented emergency" that forces us to accept it. Just like POS 02...........here we go again!
Mark my words............we'll be rushed and there will be an "invented emergency" that forces us to accept it. Just like POS 02...........here we go again!
10-17-2012 | 06:36 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
A disinterested majority?? Hmmm… I would submit that anyone who takes the time to examine the terms and then votes is hardly disinterested. After all, isn’t “majority rule” the concept that was being screeched when the “age 60 rule” was sent to the trash heap of history? There was no mention of a disinterested majority then. I guess for some, conflating the argument for “majority rule” when deciding on a compensation package that a majority may see as fair and reasonable and denying someone the opportunity to earn a livelihood that is based solely on an arbitrary construct can be confusing.
The Rep’s were elected by a majority rule and again there was no mention of anyone being disinterested. Why all of a sudden would the majority become disinterested during such a crucial time? You may believe that pressure should be placed on the respective MEC's to reject the TA and send it back, but what about the majority?
The negotiating committee was sent in to get the best deal they could and hopefully the MEC will put aside their personal bias and vote up or down according to how close the TA is to what they think the rank and file want. The mods should be congratulated for shutting down the thread because to debate something that is based on “leaked out info” that may have some truth and is not in its final and concrete form is purely conjecture and speculation. Let’s see what the deal is before there is debate and a vote taken. There will be plenty of time to debate the pros and cons.
The Rep’s were elected by a majority rule and again there was no mention of anyone being disinterested. Why all of a sudden would the majority become disinterested during such a crucial time? You may believe that pressure should be placed on the respective MEC's to reject the TA and send it back, but what about the majority?
The negotiating committee was sent in to get the best deal they could and hopefully the MEC will put aside their personal bias and vote up or down according to how close the TA is to what they think the rank and file want. The mods should be congratulated for shutting down the thread because to debate something that is based on “leaked out info” that may have some truth and is not in its final and concrete form is purely conjecture and speculation. Let’s see what the deal is before there is debate and a vote taken. There will be plenty of time to debate the pros and cons.
10-17-2012 | 11:31 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
(disclaimer) This assessment is not derived from any company or union proprietary information, nor any incidental releases of negotiaing term sheets, interum, intermediate, finalized, or otherwise derived from classified, confidnetial, personal, or other secretive data that is/is not meant for private, public, or union member consumption or consideration.
This assesment derived solely from my voodoo witch doctor and in consultation with Deione Warwick's Psychic Friends Network, John Travolta, Tom Cruise, and other mystics, enchanted persons, and in some cases.........those just in the know.
I predict ALPA will rush us, with a heavy dose of full court press communications from National and our EF&A advisors. Our local union reps will merely repeat what National is saying. They will sell us a contract that pays less than Delta and they will tell us this is the best that they can do. The wardrobe malfunction (inadvertent release of data) merely solidified what I already knew was going on behind the scenes.
Now in union communications I no longer read the words "agreement in principle." In the last two communications the agreement was referred to a "TA." This in my mind means our union has bought off on it............ Read your emails again.......and you will notice the subtle change in adjectives.
This assesment derived solely from my voodoo witch doctor and in consultation with Deione Warwick's Psychic Friends Network, John Travolta, Tom Cruise, and other mystics, enchanted persons, and in some cases.........those just in the know.
I predict ALPA will rush us, with a heavy dose of full court press communications from National and our EF&A advisors. Our local union reps will merely repeat what National is saying. They will sell us a contract that pays less than Delta and they will tell us this is the best that they can do. The wardrobe malfunction (inadvertent release of data) merely solidified what I already knew was going on behind the scenes.
Now in union communications I no longer read the words "agreement in principle." In the last two communications the agreement was referred to a "TA." This in my mind means our union has bought off on it............ Read your emails again.......and you will notice the subtle change in adjectives.
10-19-2012 | 01:50 PM
#20
I love my job!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: B757 Capt
You know the sad part is all you CAL pilots who are stomping your feet and saying NO! But the truth is any TA on the table right now is the best flying and pay scales you will have ever seen since 1983. Now UAL pilots, not so much...
I know your mantra is "we had better scope!" And the reason why you had a better scope has been argued ad nauseam, here and on the official/unofficial blog.
I know your mantra is "we had better scope!" And the reason why you had a better scope has been argued ad nauseam, here and on the official/unofficial blog.
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