Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1291751)

Solid. Good job JNC!

Sled

Originally Posted by Regularguy (Post 1292207)

While all of you are thumping your chests and looking to see what's between your legs I have just spent over 3 hours reviewing the actual agreement and the info on the ALPA web site.

Is it a "sales job?" In no way would I consider it that at all. In fact my reps (two out of three voted yes) identify the difficulty of the TA and voted after careful consideration to pass it on to us.

On the ALPA site you will find the actual words of the contract, include the kind of retro bonus distribution methods (CAL's is different than UAL's).

My observations:

Most of the work rule changes are minor improvements for the LUAL pilots. The most onerous is the changes giving the ability to move days off when on reserve. Limited to 1 domestic and more for International. But, there is a compensating ability to establish holy days each month that can not be touched by the crew desk.

The CAL side seems to have retained the ability to fly and get paid for "soft" time and up to 1000 hours annually hard time. Something new to LUAL.

The pay increases is less than many want, but this TA adds the ability (something for LUAL) for "premium pay."

Improved rules and language on layovers, times, hotels and transportation.

The LUAL MEC has developed an extremely fair system of decided how much each individual pilot will get of the retro-bonus funds.

The early out program will give an incentive to those with 60 months or less before retirement to leave.

Scope appears to be more restrictive on the LUAL side, but obviously not so for the LCAL side.

The furlough credit issue has me a bit pondered. It was my impression that credit for pay longevity was based only on time actually accrued on property prior to involuntary furlough. The agreement seems to address the issue of the ISL and what ifs when a more senior DOH is merged with the more Jr. CAL pilot.

Overall it is a net positive contract for LUAL and more so for LCAL pilots, but is it enough for many? According to you shouters it isn't. I can live with that and if it fails, but can you if it passes?

Go read the actual contract and thank your Reps for all their hard work, regardless of how you vote.

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1291882)

Oh, I'll talk smack. Some of the stuff you guys put up with is unbelievable. Good thing this contract corrects a lot of that stuff.
Paid parking for commuters
Hotel for your pc. Even if based in IAH (ygtbsm, you didn't have that)
FC travel to/from pc
Dh Econ plus or better-FC international
9 hrs behind the door
12:45 rest between reserve assignments

These are just a few examples of gains for Cal pilots. Status quo (no concession) for Ual pilots.

Sled

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1291882)

Oh, I'll talk smack. Some of the stuff you guys put up with is unbelievable. Good thing this contract corrects a lot of that stuff.
Paid parking for commuters
Hotel for your pc. Even if based in IAH (ygtbsm, you didn't have that)
FC travel to/from pc
Dh Econ plus or better-FC international
9 hrs behind the door
12:45 rest between reserve assignments

These are just a few examples of gains for Cal pilots. Status quo (no concession) for Ual pilots.

Sled

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1291900)

You mean except for the 40-63% pay raises? That's not a sharp stick in the eye. Besides, there are other gets here for us.
14 hr downtown layovers.
2 captain augment on long flights.
M5D...huge for Hi flying
1/3.5
Inc vac and training pay
Inc RSV guarantee
Pay premiums

Sled

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1291793)

Not being sarcastic. At first glance, I'll give the TA a B. Solid 80%. Good enough to pass and then get on with the seniority list. That's my opinion and prediction. Only time will tell.

Sled

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 1292272)

This reaction is almost exactly the same APC reaction the Delta TA received. Angry Delta Pilots were filling out DPA cards!

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1292311)

jsled.... Bill lumberg?! :d

Originally Posted by EatinRamen (Post 1291945)

Just out of curiosity, what would first year pay be?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp:1292315

This is wayy more angry than the DL response. From the get go there were about 30% in support on the boards. I've seen one in support of the UA TA.

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 1292323)

True, I think it will pass 52/48 vs DAL's 60/40

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 1292323)

True, I think it will pass 52/48 vs DAL's 60/40

Originally Posted by krudawg (Post 1292388)

It's been pretty quiet about the raging debate over retro pay should be a signing bonus.
I guess all the b3 (bottom 3rd) figured out that since the bus and guppies got the biggest raise under this TA that calling it retro and distributing based on W2 wages is now Fair. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by krudawg (Post 1292388)

It's been pretty quiet about the raging debate over retro pay should be a signing bonus.
I guess all the b3 (bottom 3rd) figured out that since the bus and guppies got the biggest raise under this TA that calling it retro and distributing based on W2 wages is now Fair. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by krudawg (Post 1292388)

It's been pretty quiet about the raging debate over retro pay should be a signing bonus.
I guess all the b3 (bottom 3rd) figured out that since the bus and guppies got the biggest raise under this TA that calling it retro and distributing based on W2 wages is now Fair. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by krudawg (Post 1292388)

It's been pretty quiet about the raging debate over retro pay should be a signing bonus.
I guess all the b3 (bottom 3rd) figured out that since the bus and guppies got the biggest raise under this TA that calling it retro and distributing based on W2 wages is now Fair. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1292311)

jsled.... Bill Lumberg?! :D

Originally Posted by NJGov (Post 1292312)

anyone that can PM me a copy of the TA, please? I'm not a CAL/UAL guy so I don't have access to the forum (or maybe I'm just not tech-savvy enough?)

thanks in advance

Originally Posted by apc1432 (Post 1292573)

Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 1292245)

20-K-6-f-(3) Example: A Short Call Reserve whose assignment begins at 0600 and ends at 2000 may be released from the assignment at 0700 and given a flying assignment that reports at 1700.

Not sure if you have even read the entire document.. (I've read it once, on my 2nd read through now)

Not sure if you're good at Math, but the above allows for 10 (yupe.. TEN) hours between "reserve assignments", not to mention the "Double Pump" that we were told was a no go item.

NO

C'mon Motch. That is after an UNUSED short call. ie. you never left your house! 12:45 is after returning to base after a flying assignment. That's 14:00 block to block. Double pump? ok, after 14 hours instead of what??? the 9 you have now??

Sled
Motch

Originally Posted by 13n144e (Post 1291894)

73 hour reserve guarantee, 70 hour line guarantee, only 6 immovable days off (essentially on call 25 days), training on your days off, double-pumped reserve days, outsourcing to USAir!! YGTBSM!! These are even concessionary to L-CAL, if you don't think they're concessionary to L-UAL then you are truly on board with Team FLIBS. We "put up with" the current crappy work rules because we had them shoved down our throats by the threat of bankrupcy. You vote for this POS, you own it.

Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 1292601)

10:45.



20-I-6-h-(1) Notwithstanding Section 20-K-5-a, a Reserve’s minimum Off-Duty Period at
his Base may be reduced to ten hours and forty-five minutes (10:45) following a Basic
Trip; the Reserve may waive this off-duty requirement. Notwithstanding Sections 20-K-
3-c-(8), such an assignment must be made by the time the Reserve has blocked in on the
last leg of his current assignment.

Originally Posted by Ottolillienthal (Post 1292291)

We shouldn't spend negotiating capital on FAR's, and we should certainly travel on a pass classification that is appropriate for performing duty for our company that is commensurate with our profession and the respect this profession should bring. We need to be rested for our PC's. That isn't a 'get' the company gets a rested pilot for training. they benefit too.

Originally Posted by Learjet driver (Post 1291910)

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you....... I was hired at UAL in 99 and have 6 years and a few months of active service at UAL. If this TA is voted in I go to 4 year pay, down from the 7 year pay I would be at now. When the SLI is finished I might find myself junior to a 2008 CAL hire and remain at 4 years of longevity.

I can understand how I might eat a giant **** sandwich with the SLI but to say that my longevity is tied to the CAL pilot senior to me on the new SLI is the lettuce and tomato on my giant **** sandwich.

I know that I am going to get screwed in the SLI but to actually have longevity taken away from me that I already have is crazy! I was hired at UAL over 13 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You sound like you are ok with this part of the TA because I get a raise from 7th year UAL current pay of $86 an hour to the TA rate of $112 an hour on 4th year pay.

I can already smell a class action lawsuit brewing.

Originally Posted by Ottolillienthal (Post 1292289)

That stuff isn't a "get"

That's how you should treat your aircraft commanders and the people who make this airline run. The rest and augmentation stuff is all in the new FAR's. Why is that a "get"? It's not, it's just the future of the airline business because our management's were abusing us for too long and it caught up with them.

Originally Posted by smackahoCEO (Post 1292638)

Thread on regional section says this new TA will give the Mitsubishi RJ 100+ pax plane a home. Is this true or not??? Good God guys..... Please please please protect (improve) that scope!

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1292621)

First off. I don't think your Longevity will be reduced. Second. What does longevity get you? More years on your pension formula? No. It gets you seniority and pay. You said yourself that you will be eating a sheet sandwich on seniority (me too). So that leaves pay. Do you stand on principle and cut yourself out of a 30% + raise? IDK. I am not in your shoes as I was not furloughed, but it seems foolish.

Sled