As Dennis Miller used to say....that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Sled

The largest MRJ holds 92 people. There is no MRJ that holds 100 pax, let alone 100+ pax. The smallest version holds 78 pax in a single class configuration. The second smallest model(MRJ 70ER) is forecasted to barely squeak under the 86,000 lbs limit at 85,969 lbs. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes in over 86,000 lbs.

The MRJ 70STD has a range of 820 NM and a MGTOW of just over 81,000 lbs.

The MRJ 70 ER has a range of 1470 NM, but really pushes the limit on MGTOW @ 85,969 lbs.

And the proposed scope allows nothing larger then 76 seats.

ALPA precedent: Mesaba furloughs got inserted at their "spots" on our list based on company equipment and their original DOH. The so-called relative integration. They are credited with the longevity that they would have had without furlough.

Sounds like a good DFR lawsuit against national if you get any different than our lowly regional.

Oh hell yeah, I stand on principle. Because work rules and the rights of furloughees who have been give. 100% pay cuts (two of them for me) don't come back.

You, sir, have been bitten by greed. And with your "yes" vote, you are culpable in the continual slide of this profession down a deep, dark abyss.

From my family to yours, thank you for nothing.

SCR

No offense taken. You think that full longevity credit will help your standing in the SLI and thus allow you to upgrade sooner? I don't think so. The merger announcement was 2.5 years ago. Reading the DAL/NWA and USAIr/AMwest SLI decisions, one can reasonably conclude that the so called "snapshot" or Constructive Notice Date will be on or about the same as the MAD. As for doing what is right for Jsled, I will be getting less of a percentage raise than Learjet Driver.
I agree...it's all BS. I wish your career didn't get wrecked by Tilton and the boys, and I wish Pierce wasn't such an ass. But here we are and this is a pretty good piece of pie here on the table.

Sled

No, this piece of pie is laced with strychnine.

Let me make this clear: My fellow furloughees and I are NOT trying to make ANY seniority grab. WE JUST WANT TO GET CREDIT FOR PAY PURPOSES FROM WHEN WE WERE HIRED. And from the way the furloughee section is written (para. 4), we stand to LOSE our seniority to not eclipse any pilot hired at CAL from 5/6/2008.

Oh that's a good definition of steaming pile of excrement. Is that a good way to treat your "brothers"?

That's it. Clear? Yes or no?

Enjoy your pie.

SCR

Nice grandstand, but the work rules are status quo or better. We didn't give them up in bankruptcy, (LCO excepted, but we got them back) and this contract brings CAL out of the MESA like abyss as far as work rules go.

Sled

Oh, it's clear and I don't blame you. I just think you have to weigh this contract and its benefits going forward against fighting for the past and perhaps bogging down for another 9-12 months.

Sled

Movable days off for UAL domestic reservists? s-UA pilots haven't had that in over 20 years? That's status quo? 2.5 hour short call (instead of 4 hours)? That's an improvement? A reservist having to call the crew desk before you head off to the parking lot (or your commuter flight home) is an improvement? Here's one more: Training on your days off! GREAT IDEA! Improvements all around! YOU WIN!!!

SCR

Well, Guess we found our First YES Voter.

I'm done with you as you're the type that can't see the pile of **** that the few golden nuggets are lying in~

As a CAL FO, I am willing to work under the "MESA like abyss" for a while longer (LOL... not even close to MESA> Bad, yes. But still not MESA).

The fact that anyone would say "Industry Leading at Contract End" show's how delusional you are.
Kinda like saying that our scales match Delta's (What our Union is putting out).. at Date of Signing! For One whole month!
Then it's behind Delta.. for.. years!?

So, in closing.. we have one YES, a handful of maybe's, and hundreds of NO.

Motch
Proud NO Voter~

PS> Just wondering if you'd be willing to Identify yourself? So I know who I'm writing to~ I've done it, but whenever I ask someone to identify themselves, they usually don't..

You don't know that for certain. Ask your reps how long L. Pachala said another offer could take.

Sled

Bogging down for another 9-12 months? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I hope your steel backbone and courage in this regard are carried with you to the cockpit. Bravo.

It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

SCR

Motch

"I'm done with you as you're the type that can't see the pile of **** that the few golden nuggets are lying in~"

You sir are a ____ (fill in what you want) not a hero of any sort.

Vote your no and let others do their work and have their opinion. It's a big sand box and you don't own all the toys.

So who is this Motch?

Right off the internet:

Hired in 2007 (five years seniority) First Officer at Continental Airlines
Captain, EMB145 at Trans States Airlines

Dude the idea of this forum is to remain anonymous and show some respect to your fellow posters.

This is your first contract at LCAL, calm down there are many more to go in your career and you never get everything (and sometimes nothing of what) you may want.

<sigh> Don't even know where to start. There is ONE moveable day for Domestic Reserves, not "days". We had multiple moveable days on the LCO till 2008, certainly not 20 years ago. And this is a HUGE improvement from where CAL is today. 2.5hrs is to REPORT, we are 3hrs to REPORT now. That's 30 min difference, and IF the request to show is less than 3 hours, you can park in pay parking and get reimbursed. Doing grnd school in domicile for 3.75 hrs pay on your day off is not ideal, i'll give you that. and please give me a reference for the calling the crew desk thing. BTW, you forgot min 5 per calander day (M5D). 1/3.5 TAFB.

Sled

Not kidding at all. Look at what is going on right now. CAL growth, UAL shrinkage. If not for J.H.'s plan and favorable NMB makeup, we wouldn't even be close to a contract. That is by design. In 9-12 more months there will be newhire lineholders at CAL and continued surpluses at UAL. Smeisek will be dancing in the streets. Why do you think both MECs passed this AIP by such a wide margin? I think the JNC with help from the proffer request/NMB pressure forced the Company into this contract and the MEC saw it for what it is. A solid industry leading contract that includes 30-63% pay increases and net gains in workrules and job protections. And the risk of going for more outweighs the potential reward.

Sled

She has warned that we will be parked for a long time. I'm just the messenger.

Ahhh yes the SCARE TACTICS are alive and well by the YES crowd.


Grab what pieces of silver you can get on the deck on the USS SLAVE SHIP. Worry all about CAL growing and UAL shrinking? Threats that the NMB will put us on ice? Really?


Sad.

.

You want to know what a long time is? Eight years and three months on furlough.

If I can wait, so can you. What are you so afraid of? Don't be a coward.

And don't sell out the furloughees for a few coins.

SCR

Ahhh. Easy for you to say as a CAL guy. You coming back to ol' UAL if recalled? Or are you pretty happy with the growth on the other side?

Sled

UFB you would say that. You have never walked in my shoes, and now you will vote YES on a substandard contract for a few pieces of silver...and a SLAP into the FACE OF FURLOUGHED PILOTS.

It AINT ALL ABOUT ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!

Actually, there should be a break or comma between SUNY Farmingdale and Aviation High School.

As far as "show some respect".. I have never just come on here and slammed anyone. Problem with "anonymous" posters is they can post anything and everything without fact checking.

Case in point, JSLED posted that Reserves now get 12:45 between rest periods.
I pointed out, exactly in the TA..where we do not.

Alot of guys are going to start coming out of the word work to show the "good" things of the TA (and yes, there are a few nuggets in there).. but posting false info does no one but the YES crowd any good.

Do I expect everything I want in this TA. NOPE.. I have already posted that I expected the Scope section to be a concession. But ALPA National has shown the way>.

Our Union requested that we tell them what we wanted (back in 08). They have also done Wilson Polling a few times. That became our Proposal. Lot of stuff I liked, a few I didn't.
But now, what I see is either concessions or status quo with a few gains.

Right now, someone is starting a webpage to dissect the TA. Once it's up, it will be easy to see the differences between UAL, CAL, JCBA and DAL.

Motch

PS> The ALPA Comparison document does a great job of showing us being equal and higher than Delta. Problem is, they are using Oct 2012 as their starting point and don't show yearly raise comparison.
Looking at it... it's easy to say "Hay, we're gonna be paid more than Delta"!
Slow down. We trail Delta until 2015.. and finally exceed them in 2016. Of course, they will probably have a new contract then.
And our rates go till 2017.. meaning we will probably be working under this TA (if it passes) and rates in 2018-2019.

So you would stay?

Sled

12:45 between rest periods? That doesn't even make sense. I already answered your post. Yes, a guy sitting at home on short call can be called and given a trip that shows in 10 hrs. How does that dispute the 12:45 rest after blocking in from a flying assignment? You need to educate yourself on this contract, Motch. There is lots of material on the website. Try the CrewsNews. I have read them all. And the Contract Comparison clearly shows yearly rate comparisons, so I am not sure what you are talking about.

Sled

I thought CAL didn't hire guys without a college education?

No one needs the NMB to make a deal, stop with the scare tactics. If Smisek thinks his operation will hum along smoothly while he drags his feet, I say drag away.

The DALPAoids were telling us the same thing about our TA. They swore the NMB would park us for a loong time!

And they will if you don't behave and vote yes......wait, what? ;)

"3-I-5 A Pilot shall be paid on the first (1st) and sixteenth (16th) of the month for the preceding Bid Period. The gross pay on the first (1st) shall be one half (1/2) of his MPG for the preceding Bid Period and the gross pay on the sixteenth (16th) shall be his calculated earnings from the preceding Bid Period less the gross pay received on the first (1st)."

No change for UAL. Is CAL different?

Sled

What about International Codeshare?
 

Does the TA do anything to address/stop a reattempt of the (luckily) failed attempt by UAL to do a third party international codeshare with Iceland air?? I believe it was MAD to IAD a couple of years back? Could that be reintroduced or is there a fork in it in this TA?

I'm curious about this as well (I think you are referencing the Aer Lingus tie-up/scope experiment). Has anyone said anything about scope at the bottom end; you know, those pesky RJs?

Disclaimer: I am just a lowly RJ driver and I know this is not my place. But there are a lot of us on this side who are counting on the big boys to hold the line so we have a shot at moving on in this life time.

"Pilots will be paid monthly on the sixteenth (16th) of the month following each bid period. Pilots in Active Status will receive an advance in pay on the first (1st) of each month, preceding the bid period in the amount of four thousand dollars ($4000.00) for Captains, and three thousand dollars ($3000.00) for First Officers. The advance will be seven hundred and fifty ($750.00) for pilots in their first year of service."

If it gets voted down 55% to 45%, they will tweak rates and retro to get the 5.01% needed to pass it. That will not take long.

I know we are all hungry and psychologically drained waiting for our contract, but we can not settle on the crumbs they throw off the table. We can't settle on a deal that is not worthy of a contract. Have faith, management needs a deal now more than we do and they will give more if we stand strong. Vote NO

What he said.

Currently getting $108.22.. 6th yr 756 FO.
Reserve, 76 hours.

1 Jan 13 if TA becomes JCBA- $117.67.

um, how is that 40-63%?
Raise of $9.45

Motch

Yep. What he said.

Courage, **** just GET SOME. You can wait another 9-12 months.

I've waited over 8 years on furlough. Don't tell me about running out of patience.

So...get up, stand up. Stand up for your rights. Sound off ******.

SCR

Oh.. and I also don't believe that $234.78 for a B747 Capt. while a DAL B747 makes $254.74 is correct either!

Though, we got a nice A380 payscale~
$330.20!

What were they thinking?

Motch

where are the polls?!

you need threads with polls. Admittedly it's a flawed system in that non UCAL pilots can vote but it's still interesting to see.

Sled, your comments RE my previous post are in quotes. I'm a Luddite, so you'll have to adapt and bear with me.

"End of contract Pay is industry leading"

Who cares about the pay at the end? Gas will be 6/gal by then and interest rates back into double digits! Why wait? The end is years off. I don't see enough other good stuff to justify the wait. Call me a bomb tosser, but JH promised industry leading. He and his homies did all they could to derail the contract progression for years, yet now we're going to pay El Heffe to finance the replacement jets? In fact, while we're at it, JH told me to my face that retro "was all there". Must be fuzzy math, because all I see is bupkis. I'm tired of giving UAL anything. My rectum is sore and they still want more. Nyet!

"That's 3.5 to push or 30 min less than what we have now. AND, if less than 3 hours call out you can park in pay parking and expense it."

Nope. Right not we have NO time to call out. ZERO, ZIP. You show me where it says 4 hours. You won't find it for a reason. The TA says that times can be reduced to 2:30! Who gives a ship about paid parking? I have successfully worked reserve from 200 miles from domo for 10 years. Never missed an assignment or been late when using the old "four hour" rule. Not one call from a flight manager. Not one late push. There is NO way I, or hundreds of other guys will be able to fulfill the new guideline. In 18 months or less, 2:30 will be the NORM and I'll wager a case of Heneken on it. This contract doesn't pay me enough to move. I'll take a wild guess that you're not on reserve, or live in domicile. Good for you. But before you toss our the usual crap about choosing to live in BFE, I USED to hold a line on the 37, the 67 and now the bus. My home was never an issue, while either a reserve or line holder. I've lived in the same spot since date of hire. Now, I need to move. Short calls galore, freebie FSB's, potential loss of a picked up trip to pretty much anyone, etc. "Just go sit in ops and be glad you have a job." THE RESERVE RULES SUCK. Whoopee! A three hour increase in guarantee and the occasional Oreo's tossed your way after rough sex. BFD! Please Sir, May I have another? Fly into your vacation? On a scheduled day off? MJM? What's not to like?

"at 100% pay premium AFTER they have SRMed for 100% pay premium with no takers. I can live with that. BTW, you mentioned SWA earlier. They have IJA (involuntary junior assigned)"

Glad you can live with it. Vote yes. I cannot and will negate your vote. The company could EASILY find way to cover any and all open flying without routinely screwing anyone. The CAL side of the house is used to 150% at the whim of the company. So, offer it up front and let the OT guys fly themselves into an early old folks home. They've got 7 billion to finance the P.A.T.T.

After a year or two of this contract, they'll have 10B. This contract is loaded with incentive pay. Why does it have to be doled out AFTER someone gets screwed? My last job had incentive pay for MJRM and it was universally loathed. There are better ways to cover open flying, even in irreg ops.

VACA pay is concessionary.

"compared to what we have? that don't make no sense James. 3.25 is a 16% increase."

True. But, VACA drop has been decimated! So, talk to some guys who are used to significantly improving their QOL with it before you arbitrarily decide that it's nothing. In the end, I am a QOL guy, not interested in working 20 days per month for an extra 10%. It's a big reason I wanted to wear a striped tie.