TA Overview
 

Like i said... INSULTING!!!

NO vote here

Time to look for a different parking lot.

"Short call reserve call-out time of 3:00 to report time, 2:30 using short-term parking lot (Company-paid)"

"Upon date of signing, any pilot who is, or previously was, furloughed and whose accrued pay longevity is less than that of pilots hired on or before 5/6/08 shall receive additional pay longevity credit for time spent on furlough, but only to the extent that such credit does not provide a pay longevity date prior to 5/7/08. When an Integrated Seniority List is presented to the Company that satisfies the terms of Section 5 of the Transition and Process Agreement (“TPA”), pilots who are or previously were furloughed shall receive additional pay longevity credit for all time spent on furlough provided that they have additional time on furlough which was not credited for pay longevity purposes upon date of signing, and provided further that the application of such additional credit does not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot. For purposes of the application of the calculations required by the preceding sentence only, a hypothetical unadjusted pay longevity date for s-Continental pilots shall be used. The hypothetical unadjusted pay longevity date will be established by removing pay longevity reductions resulting from to time spent on leaves of absence."

Who comes up with this stuff :confused::confused::confused:

I went to public school. Am I correct in understanding that the prior post (page 463-464 of the TA for those keeping score at home) means that the most recent round of furloughees get pay and vacation longevity at DOS, and then furlough credit before May 2008 is granted upon SLI? Not trying to sway anyone, just trying to comprehend.

Know thy enemy. You think the language is confusing on accident?

Solid. Good job JNC!

Sled

I'm sure they are going to splain it to us.

I think the enemy in this specific example is the CAL MEC. :mad:

SCR

Now more than ever you may just want to look over the fence and find some allies. We are going to have to build some serious solidarity if we're sending this back (which I am all for). I'd just like to at least do some formation flying with the guys I'm going to war with before we have to execute a life fire mission.

What I hope you are saying is that you felt CAL MEC unfairly protected the CAL pilots through this process at your expense. sCAL JP does't work for you and never did. Let's separate that, from the fact we may not like the TA. This document however is a result of JOINT negotiations. Looks like a higher percentage of UAL MEC sent it on down the line. If we don't find some thing in common, they will have us mowing their lawns for a dollar a day too. It's going to be impossible to have much in common if you keep it up with the JP attacks.

Just a stab at diplomacy, but there is a break point.

TA Overview
 

No vote. Period. UAL furloughees screwed again.

I'm with you Bligh.

Sled,

Did you actually READ the TA?

The whole thing?

Or was this that new thing called sarcasm?

It's a SOLID POS.

Sure there are some things to like, but the 4 cornerstones ARE MISSING!

Too many things still at the discretion of the company.

Pay rates and schedules are NOT acceptable

Retro/Signing bonus, whatever you want to call it, Inadequate.

No provision for annual inflationary pay increases at scheduled termination of this TA.

I hope the s.UAL pilots enjoy paying for all their healthcare AND the extra $80-90 per month for retirement VBA.

Send it back, clean up all the crap the company is asking us to pay for every month, up the rates to EQUAL Delta in $$ and same schedule, Restore Immovable days for Reserves.

Good Job, I don't think so.

Time to go missed approach on this. The company does't have the gas to go to the alternate, we'll get a visual approach right back in before the end of the year. Plan B is waiting if WE have the balls to reject this POS.

Not being sarcastic. At first glance, I'll give the TA a B. Solid 80%. Good enough to pass and then get on with the seniority list. That's my opinion and prediction. Only time will tell.

Sled

F({k NO!

Furlough credit

I think the next 4 years of your life are worth more than a first glance before passing judgement.

I agree there is enough fluff in this POS to get 50.1% of pilot group to pass.

I agree we need to move on the SLI

I think there is more on the table, not sure we'll get to see it. The company handed us plan A, Plan B is what they are willing to give us if we vote this down.

I hope we are both wrong.

TA Overview
 

UAL MEC once again totally screwed over the twice furloughed pilots. Caved to Pierce and basically altered our longevity for the SLI.
Disgusting. How do these people sleep at night???? Total trash. Total scum. Worse than scabs. At least scabs are what they are.

What is it with this perception of Pierce as some kind star chamber of puppet master? Hepner ran his own show and they voted 12-3 vice 7-4 at CAL. Own it. And then vote no.

You give them way too much credit. UAL needs to look to their own house (12-3) rather than CAL's (7-4). This is pretty remarkable considering CAL has the far and away worse contract in the industry so you'd expect an overwhelming yes from CAL for a UAL-style contract.

Have you actually looked at the ta?

I'll give you a solid B for BONEHEAD! *** are you thinking? Did you glance at what it does to the furloughed guys? You're a disgrace to the uniform.

F'n Furious! UAL furloughees get less longvty
 

Losing full longevity is one thing, but this is utter BS to actually go backwards. I had to have this clarified by the LAX LEC Chairman to see if I got this right. According to the TA, after SLI integration, we cannot have a Pay Longevity that is longer than the next sCAL pilot above us (which will be a 2008 CAL hire for most of us). I have over 6 years of Pay Longevity and will now fall to 4 years according to the LAX LEC Chair. How the hell can that happen? He says the CAL MEC voted for no full restoration, of course, but how can they legally set us backwards on Pay longevity. Seniority is one thing, such as getting stapled to the bottom, but to lose time accrued for Pay is a first for any pilot group. There has to be a mechanism to prevent this or is that called a 'lawsuit'?

damn right

I believe it says that prior to the SLI you can't be ahead of a 2008 hire but after SLI, your pay longevity can't be ahead of the CAL guy right ahead of you after the SLI shakedown. So, I agree it will take away pay longevity for some of the 2172. Really nice that there may at least be a period of time from JCBA to SLI that you could be behind a CAL furloughee DOH 08 that was also hired but was promptly recalled right after you were furloughed.
Make it our mission to fix it no matter how long it takes....plenty of 83CAL and 570 language...why not 2173/1473 in the next one!

I'm with you sled.

Plz don't ever talk smack about United of Old getting destroyed by CAL Flight Ops ever again. Calling this POS a B puts you squarely in Fred Abbott's BOHICA zone.

NO!

Disgusted right now with my 'So Called Union'..
Both Local, Pilot Group wise (except for the 7 Reps who had the Guts to Vote NO) and National.

Motch

I are a Marine, so all these words, words, words confuse Mongo.

I think this says we get boned on seniority list integration AND don't get pay credit for the 7+ years many of us have been out on the street. Soooooooo, we'd get stapled AND not get 12th year pay for the 18 months we'll get on the property before the next round of furloughs?......Mongo no like.....:mad:

Looks like I'll be growing old as Cubicle Willy, the airline pilot that was.....that is until I get furloughed from my government job after we plummet over the fiscal cliff and become Sequestration Nation. :( <<Sigh>>

Even if your perception is true, you still go from 85/hr to 114/hr DOS. That's a 34% raise. I'm just sayin

Sled

You still get paid less than Delta.. "I'm just sayin"
You still get your days off rolled... "I'm just sayin"
You still get double pumped..... "I'm Just sayin"
You only give up some Hub to Hub RJ flying... ''I'm just sayin"
You only get pennies to the dollar for Retro... "I'm just sayin"
You have an 'imaginary' A380 payscale... "I'm just sayin"

Sickening that an educated "professional pilot" can look at this and think it's a good deal~

Motch
NO Voter on 1 Dec 12

You have got to be kidding???

We are in trouble with people of this intelligence working here.

Why is that when people make intelligent decisions and through the process they come to different solutions at least one side immediately starts threatening the other? Name calling, recalls, and even lawsuits ensues.

And revisionist insist "religion" is the source of all conflicts. Go figure.

Oh, I'll talk smack. Some of the stuff you guys put up with is unbelievable. Good thing this contract corrects a lot of that stuff.
Paid parking for commuters
Hotel for your pc. Even if based in IAH (ygtbsm, you didn't have that)
FC travel to/from pc
Dh Econ plus or better-FC international
9 hrs behind the door
12:45 rest between reserve assignments

These are just a few examples of gains for Cal pilots. Status quo (no concession) for Ual pilots.

Sled

Which makes it all the more curious that only 3 on the UAL MEC voted against it. What's that all about? This doesn't look substantially different from UAL's current contract.

73 hour reserve guarantee, 70 hour line guarantee, only 6 immovable days off (essentially on call 25 days), training on your days off, double-pumped reserve days, outsourcing to USAir!! YGTBSM!! These are even concessionary to L-CAL, if you don't think they're concessionary to L-UAL then you are truly on board with Team FLIBS. We "put up with" the current crappy work rules because we had them shoved down our throats by the threat of bankrupcy. You vote for this POS, you own it.

You mean except for the 40-63% pay raises? That's not a sharp stick in the eye. Besides, there are other gets here for us.
14 hr downtown layovers.
2 captain augment on long flights.
M5D...huge for Hi flying
1/3.5
Inc vac and training pay
Inc RSV guarantee
Pay premiums

Sled

Those pay raises dont mean a thing if the soft time provisions suck.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you....... I was hired at UAL in 99 and have 6 years and a few months of active service at UAL. If this TA is voted in I go to 4 year pay, down from the 7 year pay I would be at now. When the SLI is finished I might find myself junior to a 2008 CAL hire and remain at 4 years of longevity.

I can understand how I might eat a giant **** sandwich with the SLI but to say that my longevity is tied to the CAL pilot senior to me on the new SLI is the lettuce and tomato on my giant **** sandwich.

I know that I am going to get screwed in the SLI but to actually have longevity taken away from me that I already have is crazy! I was hired at UAL over 13 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You sound like you are ok with this part of the TA because I get a raise from 7th year UAL current pay of $86 an hour to the TA rate of $112 an hour on 4th year pay.

I can already smell a class action lawsuit brewing.