TA Q&A. Answers from knowledgeable only
11-19-2012, 08:43 PM
#1
Don't say Guppy
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
TA Q&A. Answers from knowledgeable only
How about a new thread with real questions and real answers. No trolls please, lets make this thread informative, at least till thread creep ruins it.
11-20-2012, 04:03 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: 777 Cap
Posts: 199
This was a win. Yes we pay 35% of the cost, but the wholes in the PDI coverage were huge. This should make vacation donation a thing of the past.
The ONLY people that should opt out, are those that are within a year or two of Retirement and have enough sick leave to carry them through.
A Brief Look at Pilot Long Term Disability Income
An emphasis topic for today’s Tentative Agreement Update is the new Long Term Disability (LTD) plan in the TA. This plan would replace the former Pilot Disability Income (PDI). A comparison of both plans from the Retirement and Insurance Committee follows:
Q: Today PDI is completely paid for by the company, and pays 55 percent. Does the LTD program in the Tentative Agreement cost more and pay less? Is it inferior to Delta’s plan?
A: It is true that pilots will have to pay monthly premiums ranging from $150 to $221 depending on their earnings, a new experience for s-UA pilots. It is also true that the maximum monthly benefit is $8,000 – the equivalent of a 50% benefit on $192,000 annual income. It is not true that the new LTD Plan provides less disability coverage. Specifically:
• PDI pays a benefit of 55% of pre-disability earnings, fully taxable, so, for a pilot in the 28% tax bracket, the net PDI benefit is really only 39.6% of pre-disability income. The new LTD Plan will pay a benefit equal to 50% of pre-disability income, tax-free (up to $8,000 / month maximum).
• PDI provides benefits only to pilots who are permanently medically grounded; “permanence” is a continuing source of disputes under PDI. The new LTD Plan pays benefits to any pilot who is unable to exercise the privileges of his FAA medical; that is a very clear delineation which basically eliminates disputes over benefit entitlement.
• In the UAL STD / PDI structure, pilots frequently exhaust their vacation, sick leave and STD entitlements, only to discover that even though they still can’t fly they don’t meet the “permanence” test for PDI benefits. Those pilots wind-up on Illness Leave of Absence, a no-man’s land, without pay, for indeterminate periods of time – months and sometimes a year or multiple years. The LTD Plan eliminates that concern.
• There is an ongoing, unresolved dispute between the Company and ALPA regarding the duration of PDI benefits after the FTEPA change in mandatory retirement age, with the Company claiming the right to terminate benefits before age 65. Benefits under the new LTD plan continue to the legally-mandated pilot retirement age. Period.
• A number of offsets to PDI benefits – such as Workers Compensation, the 72-month “other income” offset and pension benefits (which the Company claims includes PBGC payments, a claim disputed by ALPA but unresolved as of the TA) – have been completely eliminated under the new LTD Plan.
• LTD benefits are provided for pilots with substance dependence/abuse problems and who are compliant with a continued UAL-style HIMS/EAP program, subject to a one-year lifetime maximum. PDI was not generally available at all to pilots in this situation.
• The benefit of every pilot who goes on LTD will be fully actuarially funded by assets of a VEBA trust which can never revert to the Company and will be absolutely legally immune from claims of the Company’s creditors. The actuarial assumptions used in funding benefits require ALPA approval. PDI benefits are completely unfunded and totally exposed to being eliminated in a Company bankruptcy.
• PDI is completely Company-administered. The LTD Plan will have pilot representatives on both its Administrative and Investment Committees.
The ONLY people that should opt out, are those that are within a year or two of Retirement and have enough sick leave to carry them through.
A Brief Look at Pilot Long Term Disability Income
An emphasis topic for today’s Tentative Agreement Update is the new Long Term Disability (LTD) plan in the TA. This plan would replace the former Pilot Disability Income (PDI). A comparison of both plans from the Retirement and Insurance Committee follows:
Q: Today PDI is completely paid for by the company, and pays 55 percent. Does the LTD program in the Tentative Agreement cost more and pay less? Is it inferior to Delta’s plan?
A: It is true that pilots will have to pay monthly premiums ranging from $150 to $221 depending on their earnings, a new experience for s-UA pilots. It is also true that the maximum monthly benefit is $8,000 – the equivalent of a 50% benefit on $192,000 annual income. It is not true that the new LTD Plan provides less disability coverage. Specifically:
• PDI pays a benefit of 55% of pre-disability earnings, fully taxable, so, for a pilot in the 28% tax bracket, the net PDI benefit is really only 39.6% of pre-disability income. The new LTD Plan will pay a benefit equal to 50% of pre-disability income, tax-free (up to $8,000 / month maximum).
• PDI provides benefits only to pilots who are permanently medically grounded; “permanence” is a continuing source of disputes under PDI. The new LTD Plan pays benefits to any pilot who is unable to exercise the privileges of his FAA medical; that is a very clear delineation which basically eliminates disputes over benefit entitlement.
• In the UAL STD / PDI structure, pilots frequently exhaust their vacation, sick leave and STD entitlements, only to discover that even though they still can’t fly they don’t meet the “permanence” test for PDI benefits. Those pilots wind-up on Illness Leave of Absence, a no-man’s land, without pay, for indeterminate periods of time – months and sometimes a year or multiple years. The LTD Plan eliminates that concern.
• There is an ongoing, unresolved dispute between the Company and ALPA regarding the duration of PDI benefits after the FTEPA change in mandatory retirement age, with the Company claiming the right to terminate benefits before age 65. Benefits under the new LTD plan continue to the legally-mandated pilot retirement age. Period.
• A number of offsets to PDI benefits – such as Workers Compensation, the 72-month “other income” offset and pension benefits (which the Company claims includes PBGC payments, a claim disputed by ALPA but unresolved as of the TA) – have been completely eliminated under the new LTD Plan.
• LTD benefits are provided for pilots with substance dependence/abuse problems and who are compliant with a continued UAL-style HIMS/EAP program, subject to a one-year lifetime maximum. PDI was not generally available at all to pilots in this situation.
• The benefit of every pilot who goes on LTD will be fully actuarially funded by assets of a VEBA trust which can never revert to the Company and will be absolutely legally immune from claims of the Company’s creditors. The actuarial assumptions used in funding benefits require ALPA approval. PDI benefits are completely unfunded and totally exposed to being eliminated in a Company bankruptcy.
• PDI is completely Company-administered. The LTD Plan will have pilot representatives on both its Administrative and Investment Committees.
11-20-2012, 04:24 AM
#3
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
TOP QUESTIONS (AS OF 11-16-12): (from www.unitedpilotagreement.com)
Website not loading on iPad:
Pilots are reporting that the documents on the website are not loading on iPads. This has been fixed, but should you run into this problem, the workaround is to press and hold on the link, then click “open in new tab” on the menu that pops up. We save ours in iBooks after that by tapping on the page of the document, select “Open In” and choose iBooks.
1. The lump sum payment provisions are opaque at best. How can I find out what my lump sum payment will be?
Please see the lump sum communication and table that follow this Q&A that will allow you to calculate an estimated payment for your lump sum.
Please see the lump sum communication and table that follow this Q&A that will allow you to calculate an estimated payment for your lump sum.
2. We are changing to annual vacation elections in May. What happens to my current vacation award? Will I lose my vacation?
Your 2013 vacation weeks will remain unchanged. We will transition to a joint vacation bidding process. The details on the transition process will be determined by the Joint Implementation Team. You will not lose vacation weeks.
Your 2013 vacation weeks will remain unchanged. We will transition to a joint vacation bidding process. The details on the transition process will be determined by the Joint Implementation Team. You will not lose vacation weeks.
3. What happens to my current sick bank? I’ve got over 500 hours and I’ve heard we’re going to lose it.
Your current sick bank will remain unchanged. Also, your current OI bank, if you have one held over from a previous contract, will be converted into your sick bank at a 3:2 ratio so that if you have a full 300 hour OI bank, you will receive 200 hours of sick time in your bank. The 1300 hour cap will not apply for this one-time conversion.
Your current sick bank will remain unchanged. Also, your current OI bank, if you have one held over from a previous contract, will be converted into your sick bank at a 3:2 ratio so that if you have a full 300 hour OI bank, you will receive 200 hours of sick time in your bank. The 1300 hour cap will not apply for this one-time conversion.
4. I do a lot of trip trading. As a junior lineholder, can you explain in simple terms what a "seniority based" trip trade system is going to look like?
This will be based on the L-UAL system, which allows pilots to enter criteria and conditions for trip trades. This will then be run in batches on a regular basis for each category. The “seniority based” portion means that if two pilots desire the same trade within that batch, the senior pilot gets the trade. The system can find complex branches that swap trips between large numbers of pilots with no regard to coverage. It's common to see as many as 12 pilots involved in one complicated swap.
This will be based on the L-UAL system, which allows pilots to enter criteria and conditions for trip trades. This will then be run in batches on a regular basis for each category. The “seniority based” portion means that if two pilots desire the same trade within that batch, the senior pilot gets the trade. The system can find complex branches that swap trips between large numbers of pilots with no regard to coverage. It's common to see as many as 12 pilots involved in one complicated swap.
5. Has the sick pay cap been removed?
This aggravating rule has been fixed. There is no pay cap for sick leave, although a doctor’s note is required to be paid for any trip that takes you above 92 hours. This does not give the Company discretion – you provide the note, the Company pays you.
This aggravating rule has been fixed. There is no pay cap for sick leave, although a doctor’s note is required to be paid for any trip that takes you above 92 hours. This does not give the Company discretion – you provide the note, the Company pays you.
6. What is the percentage of UAX flights between hubs? What is the percentage of UAX flights over 900 statute miles?
At the time of negotiations these ratios were: just over 4%; and just over 16%, respectively
At the time of negotiations these ratios were: just over 4%; and just over 16%, respectively
7. Why does the scope language not limit RJs by gross weight? What happens when the Company configures 76-seat B-777s and SkyWest starts up an Asian cargo operation?"
All Regional Aircraft have a weight limit in the definition section. Should the Company decide to change configuration of a specific aircraft type and no specific exception in the language is provided, it becomes an aircraft to be flown by United pilots, period.
All Regional Aircraft have a weight limit in the definition section. Should the Company decide to change configuration of a specific aircraft type and no specific exception in the language is provided, it becomes an aircraft to be flown by United pilots, period.
8. The summary states that UAX is limited to 5% of feeder hub-to-hub. To what does that 5% refer? Flights, hours, ASMs, RPMs?
Block hours
Block hours
9. I see “Beyond the Company’s Control” in the document in several places in the TA, but it isn’t defined. Why not?
It is very well defined, and is only used in Section 1. The definition is in 1-L-2 incorporates many arbitration decisions on the definition, and is in fact more restrictive than that in the current Continental contract.
It is very well defined, and is only used in Section 1. The definition is in 1-L-2 incorporates many arbitration decisions on the definition, and is in fact more restrictive than that in the current Continental contract.
10. Why does it look like I'll be losing longevity when the furloughed pilot calculations are finished?
No furloughed pilot will lose any longevity, and per LOA 25, longevity for pay can only be INCREASED. Furloughed pilots with longevity for pay of less than 4.7 years will be immediately brought up to 4.7 years at Date of Signing. This means that if they are currently flying at Continental, or if they accept an offer to fly at Continental before the Operational Merger Date (OMD), they will use the year five (5) column on the pay charts to determine their pay. After the seniority list integration, pilots will have a second adjustment to their longevity for pay based on their position on the integrated seniority list. Like the first adjustment, a furloughed pilot’s longevity for pay can only be increased in the second step and will never be decreased.
Plus, such additional adjustment will not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot.
No furloughed pilot will lose any longevity, and per LOA 25, longevity for pay can only be INCREASED. Furloughed pilots with longevity for pay of less than 4.7 years will be immediately brought up to 4.7 years at Date of Signing. This means that if they are currently flying at Continental, or if they accept an offer to fly at Continental before the Operational Merger Date (OMD), they will use the year five (5) column on the pay charts to determine their pay. After the seniority list integration, pilots will have a second adjustment to their longevity for pay based on their position on the integrated seniority list. Like the first adjustment, a furloughed pilot’s longevity for pay can only be increased in the second step and will never be decreased.
Plus, such additional adjustment will not result in any s-United pilot having a pay longevity date that is earlier than the pay longevity date of the next most senior s-Continental pilot.
Despite rumors to the contrary, there is no provision in our current contract for furloughed pilots to gain longevity for pay for time spent on furlough; the two-step provisions to gain longevity credit for pay for time on furlough are only included in the Tentative Agreement.
Extra: Quick facts on JCBA reassignments
Big picture for CAL pilot: Reassignments now have limits on when you must be scheduled to return. First day off lost on Global reassignment no longer restored if above minimum days off. Restoration process not quite as good as CAL book.
Big picture for UA pilot: For Basic pilots, reassignment limits are a little looser than UAL current book, Global is unchanged. However, UAL book provides no additional pay and no restoration of days off for a reassignment if above minimum days off. JCBA provides Add Pay and day off restoration of those day(s).
1. Basic pilots
a. Return limits:
i. Current UAL- scheduled to return within 16 hours or 0800 into day off, whichever
is earlier. 18 hours for weather, 24 hours for maintenance.
ii. Current CAL – no limits
ii. Current CAL – no limits
iii. JCBA – scheduled to return by noon the next day if original ETA was before
noon, otherwise return by end of next day
b. Restoration of days off if above minimum days off
i. Current UAL – no restoration
ii. Current CAL – restore each lost day
iii. JCBA – restore each lost day
c. Restoration of day off if below min days off – CAL book, UAL book, and JCBA require restoration to minimum days off
d. Additional pay
i. Current UAL – none
ii. Current CAL – 50% Add Pay for hours flown after original ETA
iii. JCBA
noon, otherwise return by end of next day
b. Restoration of days off if above minimum days off
i. Current UAL – no restoration
ii. Current CAL – restore each lost day
iii. JCBA – restore each lost day
c. Restoration of day off if below min days off – CAL book, UAL book, and JCBA require restoration to minimum days off
d. Additional pay
i. Current UAL – none
ii. Current CAL – 50% Add Pay for hours flown after original ETA
iii. JCBA
1. Lineholders
a. 50% Add Pay for all scheduled hours after original ETA
b. 100% Add Pay for all scheduled hours on next day
2. Reserves - 50% Add Pay for all scheduled hours on next day
2. Global Pilots
a. Return limits:
i. Current UAL- scheduled to return within 48 hours in Atlantic, 60 hours in Pacific.
Tighter if reassignment begins very early in trip.
ii. Current CAL – no limits
ii. Current CAL – no limits
iii. JCBA – scheduled to return within 48 hours if unaugmented or single
augmented, 60 hours if double augmented. Tighter if reassignment begins very
early in trip.
b. Restoration of days off if not below minimum days off
i. Current UAL – no restoration
ii. Current CAL – restore each lost day
iii. JCBA – restore each lost day, except for first day after original ETA (e.g., 3 day
trip reassigned to get home 48 hours late, restore 1 day off)
c. Restoration of day off if below min days off – CAL book, UAL book, and JCBA require restoration to minimum days off
d. Additional pay - same as Basic Pilots above
i. Current UAL – none
ii. Current CAL – 50% Add Pay for hours flown after original ETA
iii. JCBA
augmented, 60 hours if double augmented. Tighter if reassignment begins very
early in trip.
b. Restoration of days off if not below minimum days off
i. Current UAL – no restoration
ii. Current CAL – restore each lost day
iii. JCBA – restore each lost day, except for first day after original ETA (e.g., 3 day
trip reassigned to get home 48 hours late, restore 1 day off)
c. Restoration of day off if below min days off – CAL book, UAL book, and JCBA require restoration to minimum days off
d. Additional pay - same as Basic Pilots above
i. Current UAL – none
ii. Current CAL – 50% Add Pay for hours flown after original ETA
iii. JCBA
1. Lineholders
a. 50% Add Pay for all scheduled hours after original ETA
b. 100% Add Pay for all scheduled hours on next day
2. Reserves - 50% Add Pay for all scheduled hours on next day
(Lump Sum table did not format correctly)
11-20-2012, 08:05 AM
#4
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: FO 757/767
Posts: 45
What do these terms mean?
-compared on a dollar basis
-Company attempts to contact the Pilot
-is not available at the time of booking
-reasonable actual lodging expenses
-Circumstance Beyond the Company’s Control” includes but is not limited to
-compared on a dollar basis
-Company attempts to contact the Pilot
-is not available at the time of booking
-reasonable actual lodging expenses
-Circumstance Beyond the Company’s Control” includes but is not limited to
11-20-2012, 08:21 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Legalese for "when things may go the companies way they surely will, and when they ought to go the pilots way they probably won't." This TA is full of crap like that.
Now get back to work and lose that UAL culture!
Now get back to work and lose that UAL culture!
11-20-2012, 07:26 PM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by Old UCAL CA
TOP QUESTIONS (AS OF 11-16-12): (from www.unitedpilotagreement.com)
4. I do a lot of trip trading. As a junior lineholder, can you explain in simple terms what a "seniority based" trip trade system is going to look like?
This will be based on the L-UAL system, which allows pilots to enter criteria and conditions for trip trades. This will then be run in batches on a regular basis for each category. The “seniority based” portion means that if two pilots desire the same trade within that batch, the senior pilot gets the trade. The system can find complex branches that swap trips between large numbers of pilots with no regard to coverage. It's common to see as many as 12 pilots involved in one complicated swap.
This will be based on the L-UAL system, which allows pilots to enter criteria and conditions for trip trades. This will then be run in batches on a regular basis for each category. The “seniority based” portion means that if two pilots desire the same trade within that batch, the senior pilot gets the trade. The system can find complex branches that swap trips between large numbers of pilots with no regard to coverage. It's common to see as many as 12 pilots involved in one complicated swap.
This is a HUGE hit for the CAL pilots. Losing our current trip trading system to this system is just as bad as the current CAL reserve system. Once lost, we will never get this back. I consider this a monster concession. My four corners for a good contract have now become what are the four holes for this POS.
11-21-2012, 06:57 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Originally Posted by EWR73FO
This is a HUGE hit for the CAL pilots. Losing our current trip trading system to this system is just as bad as the current CAL reserve system. Once lost, we will never get this back. I consider this a monster concession. My four corners for a good contract have now become what are the four holes for this POS.
11-21-2012, 08:41 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by EWR73FO
This is a HUGE hit for the CAL pilots. Losing our current trip trading system to this system is just as bad as the current CAL reserve system. Once lost, we will never get this back. I consider this a monster concession. My four corners for a good contract have now become what are the four holes for this POS.
1. Currently, if you aren't able to be a computer at the precise second that the trip trade window opens, you are essentially hosed. The looks like it would allow you put in trade preferences and allow a seniority based system find a solution.
2. Currently, after the initial window opens, you can forget about trading away days off.
Perhaps this system will address both of these. I'm going to get the facts before I condemn it.
11-21-2012, 04:30 PM
#9
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
It's potentially a huge hit for everybody. The current UAL system is not seniority based but rather first come first served. I'm gonna suspect this change is designed to thwart those that are running bots to sharpshoot trades.
I agree the two tools in ewr need to be stopped but there are cheaper and easier alternatives to changing the whole system. No longer changing your schedule all month long. Now you have to wait the day before and hope there are enough trips that meet your criteria.
11-21-2012, 08:51 PM
#10
Don't say Guppy
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
I have been gone for 4 years, but if I remember correctly, and UAL guys can correct me, but UAL's was first come first served, with a nasty twist. There was a company selling automated trip trade software that had a seniority based system on their own. Whoever paid first had "seniority" in their system over a later pilot that joined. If a trip came open, the one with the highest seniority at that software company got the trip first. It did not ever affect me, but I always thought this should have been shut down.
This seniority based system in the new contract should fix this. All that being said, as a junior guy i liked the first come first served.
This seniority based system in the new contract should fix this. All that being said, as a junior guy i liked the first come first served.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
