And we always seem to forget that this was agreed to in the original T&PA (and the extension) which UAL ALPA was also a party to. Seemed not to be that much of an issue for UAL ALPA until after a JCBA. Only then did emotional impact ramifications come into play to stop the SFO base the company wanted to open for L-CAL planes. Not saying I don't agree with what you are saying though.

Of course it makes no difference that many of those opportunistic LCAL folks are furloughed UAL folks.

Willing to bet that it's not their first choice to be in that position and still plenty stuck in Ewr or IAH. My guess is that CAL would be hiring, to some degree for retirements and FAR117, but not anywhere near he current numbers sans the merger.

IMHO, you are correct.

After all, the sCAL fleet has virtually the same number of hulls today as it did in Sept. 2010. The factors causing recent hiring at sCAL do not include simple airframe "growth".

sCAL total mainline fleet:

09/20/2010 - 348

12/31/2012 - 341

Agreed. With CAL having just furloughed prior to the merger announcement, it was clear that they were not growing like crazy.

I also think its great that 2005 hires are now getting Capt bids on the CAL side. I hope that movement stays for everyone. But that growth is 100% of a growth at an airline only being available to 40% of the pilots. We have 1995 hires who have been Captains for 14 years now continuously, so "just now getting a Captain bid" doesn't mean that person gets to be the same seniority as a 95 hire who has been there 14 years.

I would be interested to know the DOH of the most junior CAL pilot who has been a Captain continuously since 1999.

Another erroneous statement needing correction. CAL furloughed in fall of 2008 (147 pilots). CAL announced another furlough in summer 2009 for fall 2009 but leaves and VRFs negated the need to furlough any more pilots.

Eighteen (18) months is not "just furloughed prior to the merger announcement."

The merger was announced in May of 2010, and the furloughs, voluntary or not, were in the fall of '09.


Oct. of '09 to May of 2010 = 8 months not 18 months.


Just because man-power adjusted on a voluntary basis doesn't change the facts. Furloughs are furloughs and you still have to wait for a recall or bump someone involuntarily when you come back.

The problem with your math and this entire scenario is the fact that staffing was poor in 2010 and is now even worse in 2013. With the fleet count dropping by 7, which were older 737-500's and some 767-200's, that is not indiciate "hiring" but a lack of bodies does. We were slashed in 2008-2009 from the Abott bid as well as age 65. With crappy staffing made even worse and the deliveries of aircraft ordered from 2005 forward, hiring had no place to go but up. Whether we megered or not, CAL would still be running bids just like 14-02 and would continue to do so. We had our 25 787's and 25 options finally going to be delivered to ice the cake, so yeah, our hiring was going to continue with or without UAL. LUAL pilots simply stepped into this thinking they would be able to take what they felt was "rightfully" theirs. Not so. Wait until the SLI is completed in late August, the 6-18 months for crossover fleet commonality training and then bid what you want.

That's a bit dramatic wouldn't you say? Nobody was thinking they were going to step in and "take" anything.

How would you characterise the argument that the JCBA needed to be voted solely in order to stop LCAL pilot upgrades and secure said upgrades for LUAL pilots?