Furloughed = "robust career expectations"?
04-13-2013, 02:45 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 374
Originally Posted by vspeed
Your demographics are way off and one only has to look at the respective seniority lists to know where everyone was at...
Hired and actively serving are 2 different animals entirely.
Just like the stock market, if you bow out of the market and then buy back in on the upswing, you lose your dollar cost averaging..same can be said when you are temporarily unemployed ie furloughed.
The only reason you were hired in the first place was to to an oversight and poor manpower planning of your respective company to only furlough you a short time later
Hired and actively serving are 2 different animals entirely.
Just like the stock market, if you bow out of the market and then buy back in on the upswing, you lose your dollar cost averaging..same can be said when you are temporarily unemployed ie furloughed.
The only reason you were hired in the first place was to to an oversight and poor manpower planning of your respective company to only furlough you a short time later
04-13-2013, 02:46 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 419
Originally Posted by Speedtape
Apparently we will never thoroughly flog the whinny out of this old nag , but :
When you're furloughed, you have no career expectations, certainly not relative to an employed pilot at the same airline.
You're not flying one of those "International Wide bodies", you're unemployed. Sorry.
I'd say a CAL 05 who is sitting junior 756 RESV CA, or line holding 737CA has a more robust future than a furloughed guy. Maybe not in your world ...
Not trying to spike the ball here, but CAL in 05 was kinda like getting on at UAL in the late 80's, early 90's. Retirements imminent, aircraft on order ... etc.
If you wanna make the right sizing argument, thats fine. Just produce the documentation, or testimony from Larry and Glenn.
Larry's unoffical testimony has been printed before.
When you're furloughed, you have no career expectations, certainly not relative to an employed pilot at the same airline.
You're not flying one of those "International Wide bodies", you're unemployed. Sorry.
I'd say a CAL 05 who is sitting junior 756 RESV CA, or line holding 737CA has a more robust future than a furloughed guy. Maybe not in your world ...
Not trying to spike the ball here, but CAL in 05 was kinda like getting on at UAL in the late 80's, early 90's. Retirements imminent, aircraft on order ... etc.
If you wanna make the right sizing argument, thats fine. Just produce the documentation, or testimony from Larry and Glenn.
Larry's unoffical testimony has been printed before.
The spiking will come when the Arbitrators ask Capt Brucia to explain his comments regarding the inclusion of furloughees in the SLI and when the UAL MEC chairman (seat on da BOD) produces evidence of right sizing.
Last edited by ChrisJT6; 04-13-2013 at 03:24 PM.
04-13-2013, 02:53 PM
#13
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 536
Originally Posted by vspeed
Your demographics are way off and one only has to look at the respective seniority lists to know where everyone was at...
Hired and actively serving are 2 different animals entirely.
Just like the stock market, if you bow out of the market and then buy back in on the upswing, you lose your dollar cost averaging..same can be said when you are temporarily unemployed ie furloughed.
The only reason you were hired in the first place was to to an oversight and poor manpower planning of your respective company to only furlough you a short time later
Hired and actively serving are 2 different animals entirely.
Just like the stock market, if you bow out of the market and then buy back in on the upswing, you lose your dollar cost averaging..same can be said when you are temporarily unemployed ie furloughed.
The only reason you were hired in the first place was to to an oversight and poor manpower planning of your respective company to only furlough you a short time later
"bow out" you say and then compare it to being furloughed - your are a piece of work to even suggest that the 2000 + UAL furloughed bowed out.
04-13-2013, 02:56 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: EWR 756 Captain
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by uaav8r
The thing is though, in my eyes, our furloughees, many of whom were hired at OUR airline over 13 years ago should not be stapled below a guy who may very well not have been in this industry on 9-11-01. I'm sorry but I have a problem with that. Luckily, neither you nor I have a say in this matter....LONGEVITY, CAREER EXPECTATION, FLEET/SEAT...period! Let the cards fall where they may.
Again, I chose to go to CAL, they chose UAL. I asked someone here why they didn't apply to CAL in 05. Their response was that yes, as I expected, they were too good for $29/hour and no insurance... etc
I was as well, but I also saw a well run award winning airline, and opportunity for upgrade in a reasonable time frame (~ 8 years minus the age 65 slow down) To each his own right?
Personally I feel that one group is looking for a fair relative seniority integration, while you guys want a windfall, and a chance to go right to WB CA after years of stagnation and backsliding. Plenty of furloughs expect such a windfall as well, at least the ones I've come across.
It was also my experience before any merger was announced. UAL guys wanted a merger, and were full of questions about my d.o.h.
what I was holding, etc.
I do agree that you and I don't get to make the call though
04-13-2013, 03:03 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Originally Posted by ChrisJT6
The spiking will come when the Arbitrators ask Capt Brucia to explain his comments regarding the inclusion of furloughees in the SLI and when the UAL MEC chairman (who had a seat on the Board of Directors) produces evidence of collusion.
04-13-2013, 03:03 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 419
Originally Posted by Speedtape
I certainly was in this industry on 9/11, and had my career expectations impacted as a result ...
Again, I chose to go to CAL, they chose UAL. I asked someone here why they didn't apply to CAL in 05. Their response was that yes, as I expected, they were too good for $29/hour and no insurance... etc
I was as well, but I also saw a well run award winning airline, and opportunity for upgrade in a reasonable time frame (~ 8 years minus the age 65 slow down) To each his own right?
Personally I feel that one group is looking for a fair relative seniority integration, while you guys want a windfall, and a chance to go right to WB CA after years of stagnation and backsliding. Plenty of furloughs expect such a windfall as well, at least the ones I've come across.
It was also my experience before any merger was announced. UAL guys wanted a merger, and were full of questions about my d.o.h.
what I was holding, etc.
I do agree that you and I don't get to make the call though
Again, I chose to go to CAL, they chose UAL. I asked someone here why they didn't apply to CAL in 05. Their response was that yes, as I expected, they were too good for $29/hour and no insurance... etc
I was as well, but I also saw a well run award winning airline, and opportunity for upgrade in a reasonable time frame (~ 8 years minus the age 65 slow down) To each his own right?
Personally I feel that one group is looking for a fair relative seniority integration, while you guys want a windfall, and a chance to go right to WB CA after years of stagnation and backsliding. Plenty of furloughs expect such a windfall as well, at least the ones I've come across.
It was also my experience before any merger was announced. UAL guys wanted a merger, and were full of questions about my d.o.h.
what I was holding, etc.
I do agree that you and I don't get to make the call though
04-13-2013, 03:05 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: EWR 756 Captain
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by ChrisJT6
With rights to a recall and age 65 over, why exactly can I not expect a career similar to UAL 747 Captains that were also furloughed exactly like me?
The spiking will come when the Arbitrators ask Capt Brucia to explain his comments regarding the inclusion of furloughees in the SLI and when the UAL MEC chairman (seat on da BOD) produces evidence of collusion.
The spiking will come when the Arbitrators ask Capt Brucia to explain his comments regarding the inclusion of furloughees in the SLI and when the UAL MEC chairman (seat on da BOD) produces evidence of collusion.
Well, where is your recall to UAL? and what would you be recalled to?
A320 reserve in ORD? Why hasn't that happened, since we're still operating separately ?
Go read Bruscia's comments in full context of the USAir furloughs.
Nuff said.
Please produce the collusion evidence asap, I'll be glad to stand there with you and cheer as Glenn is frog-marched to federal court, then prison.
(UAL MEC opinion is not evidence though)
04-13-2013, 03:10 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Staller
Just like the stock market, if you bow out of the market and then buy back in on the upswing, you lose your dollar cost averaging..same can be said when you are temporarily unemployed ie furloughed.
"bow out" you say and then compare it to being furloughed - your are a piece of work to even suggest that the 2000 + UAL furloughed bowed out.
"bow out" you say and then compare it to being furloughed - your are a piece of work to even suggest that the 2000 + UAL furloughed bowed out.
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