Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
(Post 1484983)
Correct. The bumps will take a while to filter through. Combined with vacancy bids, the return of the 400 to ORD, it's departure at LAX, this will very interesting to say the least. I'm sure they are on top of it.
Sled |
Originally Posted by mrmak2
(Post 1485003)
Question: can the post-2010 "new hires" (off-the-street folks) bid to the 747 or are they considered CAL and subject to the 5-yr fence? Yes, I know we are so junior that it won't matter, but I am thinking theoretically here.
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Originally Posted by mrmak2
(Post 1485003)
Question: can the post-2010 "new hires" (off-the-street folks) bid to the 747 or are they considered CAL and subject to the 5-yr fence? Yes, I know we are so junior that it won't matter, but I am thinking theoretically here.
I believe this will be a huge subject to interpretation by many, but it spells out pre merger for both. :-) Here's the detail info from CAL-UAL ISL Opinion and Award 9.3.13: B. Conditions and Restrictions 5. For a period of five (5) years beginning with the Bid Period in which the ISL is first implemented, or until the carrier takes delivery of its twenty-fifth (25th) B787 aircraft, whichever occurs sooner, no premerger Continental pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B747 or A350 aircraft or displaced to one and no premerger United pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B787 aircraft or displaced to one. |
For LCAL pilots new to this system, pay attention to the power of unadvertised vacancies, particularly as it involves covering attrition as senior pilots retire and the resulting importance of "standing" bids.
Example: UAL Posts a small vacancy bid with only 40 777 CA positions (~10% of next year's attrition) Is this a bid with 40 vacancies? Nope. In an imaginary "stovepipe" scenario this will result in 40 CAs bidding off the 767 which results in 40 CAs bidding off the 737 which results in 40 777 FOs bidding 737 CA and so on.... A small bid for large equipment can result in several hundred subsequent bid awards and training events in bases, equipment, and seats that were never part of the advertised bid. Thus, one should always have a "standing bid" for the BES one really wants and never have anything in the computer that is not 100% desired because you just might get it even if you didn't think the bid would affect you. |
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
(Post 1485026)
UAL Posts a small vacancy bid with only 40 777 CA positions |
Originally Posted by jetlink
(Post 1485025)
Fences are for 2010 pre merger list of L-CAL and L-UAL pilots, so technically pilots hired after 2010 merger are considered new United inc. pilots that do not fit this category. So, yes you can bid it if you can hold it.
I believe this will be a huge subject to interpretation by many, but it spells out pre merger for both. :-) Here's the detail info from CAL-UAL ISL Opinion and Award 9.3.13: B. Conditions and Restrictions 5. For a period of five (5) years beginning with the Bid Period in which the ISL is first implemented, or until the carrier takes delivery of its twenty-fifth (25th) B787 aircraft, whichever occurs sooner, no premerger Continental pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B747 or A350 aircraft or displaced to one and no premerger United pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B787 aircraft or displaced to one. Section 6 also talks about what would happen if their were insufficent bidders from the legacy group protected by the fence. "6. Should there be insufficient bidders from one premerger pilot group for any position in the allocated group of positions under paragraph 5 above, the filling of the position will be governed by the ISL. A pilot thereby awarded a position will, for purposes of processing future displacements under the collective bargaining agreement, be considered as junior to all pilots from the premerger pilot group entitled to the position. Notwithstanding the awarding of positions pursuant to this insufficient bidders provision, the restrictions set out in paragraph 5 above shall continue to apply during the terms specified in paragraph 5 above." So, if there is an unfilled bid that is fenced off, that bid then becomes open to anyone on the ISL (regardless of heritage). So pretty unlikely an off the street guy or gal would see one of those before the 25th 787 arrives. |
Originally Posted by GoCats67
(Post 1484934)
Now that the ISL is done, does anyone have any insight/strong rumor on when the bidding festivities begin?
I took some current staffing numbers from a different post and the So, anybody have any good rumors on when the bidding will begin? |
Here is one for Ual guy furloughed now on cal property now recalled. This should mean we are not fenced on Any aircraft! We have both Ual and Cal time :-):):D
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When I was hired we all got to spend a week in Chicago for kool aid and indoctrination. At that time the head guru of scheduling told us that for EACH 747-400 Captain bid, the company planned on 16 additional moves (all training events) as hundreds of pilots below this Captain had the opportunity to change seats. Bear in mind that at the time we had two different types of 747s along with the DC10, 777, 767, 737NG (300-500 glass CAT 3), 737-200, 727, and Airbus.
IOW, senior rope start F/Os could now have a shot at the right seat of the 400, triple seven guys could now bid the whale, 67 guys the 777, etc etc etc all the way down the line to the 727 Flight Engineers. Why? Because each seat represented a pay scale HIGHER than the one vacated. Everybody got a raise. Some guys LIKE to chase money and are eager to position themselves to make more of it. Sound familiar? More money caused more bids and more pilot jobs. Now? A two engine 400,000 pound 67 pays the same as a 4 engine 800,000 pound 747. Decision 83 was tossed in the dumpster. WHY did we give this up? After all, its highly concessionary and pilot negative. I wonder? Anyone? Bueller? Baron? What a steaming load of effluent. Pay banding, the gift that keeps on taking. |
James;
I am not sure what the best system is. When I was younger I liked the international flying. Now my dream job is one day trips. I think I would rather get paid by seat and longevity than aircraft weight. Let the young guys fly all night to party in RIO if they want. The last thing we need is a cockpit full of 64 year olds doing an 8 day asia trip. I am not sure which system is best. I don't see the argument that it is pilot negative, other than fewer instructors and fewer pilots in training chasing an 8 dollars an hour raise. |
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