Bases and Seats...
08-27-2015, 06:00 AM
#311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
OK guys, how about this for our next reserve system.
36 hour callout, minimum.
Cant get used until 1700, second day of reserve.
If not used by 3rd day of reserve by 0600, you are auto-released.
Positive space business class to and from a reserve assignment.
Oh, wait, sorry. No good. It doesn't say WHICH business seat we get. This system also SUCKS. I am voting NO until I get to choose which business class seat I get!!!!!
Our reserve system is the best it has ever been. I fly with new hires,through 12 year FO's. One or two of the top ten bid reserve most months, sometimes two of them.
Other than getting paid for FSB, I can't really think of an improvement I would want ALPA to spend negotiating capitol on.
And, once again, those on this thread are the only ones I have heard complain about our current reserve system.
36 hour callout, minimum.
Cant get used until 1700, second day of reserve.
If not used by 3rd day of reserve by 0600, you are auto-released.
Positive space business class to and from a reserve assignment.
Oh, wait, sorry. No good. It doesn't say WHICH business seat we get. This system also SUCKS. I am voting NO until I get to choose which business class seat I get!!!!!
Our reserve system is the best it has ever been. I fly with new hires,through 12 year FO's. One or two of the top ten bid reserve most months, sometimes two of them.
Other than getting paid for FSB, I can't really think of an improvement I would want ALPA to spend negotiating capitol on.
And, once again, those on this thread are the only ones I have heard complain about our current reserve system.
I'll go ahead and forward all of your information about how pilots are stupid for CHOOSING to commute to all of the 787 and 777 pilots about to be kicked out of SFO/LAX and forced to commute and/or forced onto reserve.
08-27-2015, 06:36 AM
#312
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
During the next cyclical economic, system fault reset or other UA induced spasm,
1. I wonder how many Captains will CHOOSE to be bumped to a lower paying fleet to avoid our Hainous (sp intentional
)reserve?
2. I wonder of them will CHOOSE to lose line holder seniority and will end up on reserve?
3. I wonder how many F/O's will CHOOSE to relocate their families to another domicile to avoid reserve?
4. I wonder how many short calls the crew desk will CHOOSE to assign tomorrow? How many will they CHOOSE to convert to FSB's halfway through the SC assignment?
Our pre merger SC/LC policies and language killed the current one.
I can hear Anita Bryant now, "Reserve! Its not just for choosers any more!"
1. I wonder how many Captains will CHOOSE to be bumped to a lower paying fleet to avoid our Hainous (sp intentional
)reserve?2. I wonder of them will CHOOSE to lose line holder seniority and will end up on reserve?
3. I wonder how many F/O's will CHOOSE to relocate their families to another domicile to avoid reserve?
4. I wonder how many short calls the crew desk will CHOOSE to assign tomorrow? How many will they CHOOSE to convert to FSB's halfway through the SC assignment?
Our pre merger SC/LC policies and language killed the current one.
I can hear Anita Bryant now, "Reserve! Its not just for choosers any more!"
08-27-2015, 07:35 AM
#313
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 862
Seriously.....your tone does not come off in a positive way. This reserve system is abusive period. I did not choose to live out of domicile...United keeps changing the playing field. Short call used to be 4hrs for call out. big difference! Had perfect visibility on reserve assignments position in the silo, living in domicile, on reserve was wonderful. Hoping for better going forward. It would be helpful if folks like you would support reserve improvements.
08-27-2015, 07:58 AM
#314
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
During the next cyclical economic, system fault reset or other UA induced spasm,
1. I wonder how many Captains will CHOOSE to be bumped to a lower paying fleet to avoid our Hainous (sp intentional )reserve?
2. I wonder of them will CHOOSE to lose line holder seniority and will end up on reserve?
3. I wonder how many F/O's will CHOOSE to relocate their families to another domicile to avoid reserve?
4. I wonder how many short calls the crew desk will CHOOSE to assign tomorrow? How many will they CHOOSE to convert to FSB's halfway through the SC assignment?
Our pre merger SC/LC policies and language killed the current one.
I can hear Anita Bryant now, "Reserve! Its not just for choosers any more!"
1. I wonder how many Captains will CHOOSE to be bumped to a lower paying fleet to avoid our Hainous (sp intentional
)reserve?2. I wonder of them will CHOOSE to lose line holder seniority and will end up on reserve?
3. I wonder how many F/O's will CHOOSE to relocate their families to another domicile to avoid reserve?
4. I wonder how many short calls the crew desk will CHOOSE to assign tomorrow? How many will they CHOOSE to convert to FSB's halfway through the SC assignment?
Our pre merger SC/LC policies and language killed the current one.
I can hear Anita Bryant now, "Reserve! Its not just for choosers any more!"
That has been our entire existence for the time both of us have been here. We both have CHOSEN to stay here. We are both volunteers in this job. The only constant has been change, and instability. It doesn't look like is going to get any more stable, any time soon. So all of us get to choose.
BTW I have also flown with one pilot a few times that spends all of his time taking pictures of his crew meals and writing PDR's and expense reports for inadequate crew meals. It is his burden.
08-27-2015, 08:00 AM
#315
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
Some pilots choose the stable path. Some choose ORD A320 or 737 FO, and stay there for 15 years. No training, no bumps, no reserve. Others CHOOSE to chase the money, or the left seat, and give up seniority to do so, including me.
I just don't blame someone else for my choices. Especially online.
I just don't blame someone else for my choices. Especially online.
08-27-2015, 08:11 AM
#316
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: EWR 777 FO
Posts: 187
The reserve rules here are atrocious. I had better rules and reserve qol at a regional. I will fight anyone who says they like the reserve rules as they are! (Just kidding). Seriously though it is almost to the point where I can't plan anything whatsoever on my days off because I am rolled into them half the time. Unlimited short calls, field standbys, as well as rolled days off for no add pay is as bad as I can imagine. And if I have one more senior guy/gal who hasen't seen reserve in years try telling me how great it is compared to how it use to be I am going to scream!
08-27-2015, 08:21 AM
#317
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 862
The reserve rules here are atrocious. I had better rules and reserve qol at a regional. I will fight anyone who says they like the reserve rules as they are! (Just kidding). Seriously though it is almost to the point where I can't plan anything whatsoever on my days off because I am rolled into them half the time. Unlimited short calls, field standbys, as well as rolled days off for no add pay is as bad as I can imagine. And if I have one more senior guy/gal who hasen't seen reserve in years try telling me how great it is compared to how it use to be I am going to scream!
08-27-2015, 10:00 AM
#318
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: 320 Captain
Posts: 647
OK, a little history lesson for L-UAL reserve.
Pre-95 to late 90's early 2000's (can't remember)
EVERYBODY IS SHORT CALL, every day. 24/7. Long call didn't exist. You were legal for an 0500 show day 1, and there was no auto-early release the last day. The ONLY good thing was it was pure FIFO. You knew where you were on the list.
You could be on call all stinking day, and get called at 7 pm for an all night trans-con.
Next system, FAA mandates reserve rest periods. Up to 05 or 06.
Everybody is still short call. Long call does not exist. In theory it is still FIFO, but because of all the different rest periods, nobody really knows where they are on the FIFO list. The crew desk can do whatever they want because no one can figure out where they are.
06 to present contract.
LC and SC. Very similar to what we have now. I can't remember the exact details. I sat reserve under this system for 3 years straight. It was decent.
Present contract.
Similar to what LUAL had before. LC and SC. An hour of pay for every unused short call above 2. Crew desk seems aggressive about releasing you quickly off short call so you are only on short call a few hours a day. With FAR 117, they just can't use you for very long on short call.
Other than the FSB, our current system is just fine. If you are getting used every day, ANY reserve system sucks. Ours is better than it has ever been.
And once again, the ones on this thread are the ONLY ones I have heard complain about it.
How would I improve it? If enough people think there are too many short calls, maybe make all unused short calls above, say 8 or 10, pay 2 hours instead of one. It would start getting expensive. I had 13 last month, which is about average for me. FSB should be paid.
Pre-95 to late 90's early 2000's (can't remember)
EVERYBODY IS SHORT CALL, every day. 24/7. Long call didn't exist. You were legal for an 0500 show day 1, and there was no auto-early release the last day. The ONLY good thing was it was pure FIFO. You knew where you were on the list.
You could be on call all stinking day, and get called at 7 pm for an all night trans-con.
Next system, FAA mandates reserve rest periods. Up to 05 or 06.
Everybody is still short call. Long call does not exist. In theory it is still FIFO, but because of all the different rest periods, nobody really knows where they are on the FIFO list. The crew desk can do whatever they want because no one can figure out where they are.
06 to present contract.
LC and SC. Very similar to what we have now. I can't remember the exact details. I sat reserve under this system for 3 years straight. It was decent.
Present contract.
Similar to what LUAL had before. LC and SC. An hour of pay for every unused short call above 2. Crew desk seems aggressive about releasing you quickly off short call so you are only on short call a few hours a day. With FAR 117, they just can't use you for very long on short call.
Other than the FSB, our current system is just fine. If you are getting used every day, ANY reserve system sucks. Ours is better than it has ever been.
And once again, the ones on this thread are the ONLY ones I have heard complain about it.
How would I improve it? If enough people think there are too many short calls, maybe make all unused short calls above, say 8 or 10, pay 2 hours instead of one. It would start getting expensive. I had 13 last month, which is about average for me. FSB should be paid.
*FIFO
*4 designated rest periods that pilots bid on. Once returned from an assignment pilot reverted to their designated rest period. (The A rest period if offered was the most senior as it went from 0100-1000 mainly because it meant you never did the 0600/0700 departures)
*unwritten 4 hour callout to departure
*could volunteer to aggressive pick up a open trip that was within silo or silo -1, 28-24 hours out (48 hours for international). Out of silo with crew desk concurrence.
*Reserve guarantee of 75 hours.
Bankruptcy Contract 2003 (UAL)
*FIFO and Long call/Short call mix (13 hours for long call)
20-J-1-b All reserve pilots begin each set of reserve days as a Long Call reserve unless awarded a pure Short Call line per paragraph 20-J-3-s or converted to a Short Call window in accordance with the procedure described in Paragraphs 20-J-4 & 20-J-5 below.
20-J-1-d-(1) Reserve crew members will be assigned open flying or standby on a first-in first-out rotation with other reserves in their status and equipment type in the following manner
*Aggressive pick up option 28 hours out or 1100 the day before, whichever is earlier. (Includes picking up SC assignments)
*Auto release at 1000 on last day when on long call. 1500 when on a short call.(20-J-3-m The 1500 automatic release provisions of section 5-G-1-e-(6)-(b) will apply to Short Call reserves on their last day of availability.)
*Limit of 7 SC assignments per month (waived with pilot concurrence). If at 4 SC conversions for the month, the crew desk will bypass if able.
*had to check for and acknowledge an assignment on your last RDO.
*unwritten 4 hour callout to departure
*could request a pure SC line after PBS awarded.
*Pure FSB lines
*Credit (5 hours) for a FSB assignment if not used.
*Reserve guarantee of 70 hours.
Merger contract 2012.
*long call/short call
*had to check schedule and acknowledge assignment on last RDO (superseded by FAR 117)
*written max times for SC report to an assignment
*aggressive pick up option of open trips and SC
*no limit to amount of SC or FSB, however bypass once have 2.
*pay for additional unused or FSB assignments once past 2 (1 hour reflected in MPG per unused event)
*Reserve guarantee of 73 hours.
There are more examples of each of the 3 contracts that are similar and are different.
But to claim that this system is the best we have ever had? Disagree, especially given the lack of control over the amount and timing of daily SC's built. And with 117 you have a up to a 16 hour RAP, so not sure why you think the crew desk can't use you very much while on SC.
As a local schedule volunteer I certainly get and have been getting negative feedback on our current system. What is the point of a long call system if everyone is always on SC?
The crew desk thinks that being on long call is a "day off". So does it seem a few of the pilots too. Completely wrong.
You are phone available 24 hours a day when on long call. That is not a day off. If you are averaging 13 SC per month that is validating that it really isn't a long call/short calls reserve system. It's a short call system with an occasional long call.
DC
08-27-2015, 10:26 AM
#319
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,207
Someone smarter than me once said, you can tell how good the reserve rules are by how senior reserve is bid.
I don't have many complaints, and the once I do have would be minor tweaks. Then again, this is my first 121 job and I don't know any better.
I don't have many complaints, and the once I do have would be minor tweaks. Then again, this is my first 121 job and I don't know any better.
08-27-2015, 10:32 AM
#320
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Does anyone remember when they used to publish and assign all the short calls? At least in Dulles, they were always published by about 0930 and assigned by 11-Noon. So, if not tagged on your last day off, you were all but guaranteed a long call assignment for your first day ON. This was fantastic for commuting reserves and anyone who liked to plan ahead. Now? Gone.
Does anyone remember the FIFO list and the open trip list? They were almost totally transparent and easy to comprehend. I'll allow that 117 screwed this up quite a bit, but the language in the CBA and loopholes in CCS screwed them up more. Now, your position is anyones guess and very difficult to sift through the detritus to determine if an assignment was legal or pure whimsy. Transparency, gone.
I was never called in the middle of a SC assignment and told to head to the drome and sit FSB. Now, sure. Because they can. Furthermore, one hour pay for a FSB is a joke.
Remember when you finished a trip and went home? Now a "mother may I" is required.
On any given day there are hundreds, if not thousands of pilots on reserve. Reserve ought not be this punitive. 73 hours stinks. 2.5 hour call outs (in our metropolitan domiciles) stink. Rolling days off stinks. Free-for-all SC's stink. Etc. Etc. We ought to try and improve the QOL for those Reserve and not simply tell them, "Too bad. Suck it up".
4 bumps.
Does anyone remember the FIFO list and the open trip list? They were almost totally transparent and easy to comprehend. I'll allow that 117 screwed this up quite a bit, but the language in the CBA and loopholes in CCS screwed them up more. Now, your position is anyones guess and very difficult to sift through the detritus to determine if an assignment was legal or pure whimsy. Transparency, gone.
I was never called in the middle of a SC assignment and told to head to the drome and sit FSB. Now, sure. Because they can. Furthermore, one hour pay for a FSB is a joke.
Remember when you finished a trip and went home? Now a "mother may I" is required.
On any given day there are hundreds, if not thousands of pilots on reserve. Reserve ought not be this punitive. 73 hours stinks. 2.5 hour call outs (in our metropolitan domiciles) stink. Rolling days off stinks. Free-for-all SC's stink. Etc. Etc. We ought to try and improve the QOL for those Reserve and not simply tell them, "Too bad. Suck it up".
4 bumps.
Last edited by oldmako; 08-27-2015 at 10:50 AM.
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