Fifi slimline
03-02-2014 | 10:40 AM
#31
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I don't think one was pulling and the other pushing. If two guys are on the controls, it starts blaring "Priority Left!!" (or right), which means the other guy is flying, and you are bumping the controls. IIRC, there is also a gun-cross on the MFD that shows where the flying pilot is trying to command the aircraft. (ie, a stick-input indicator).
I think they knew the stick was full-aft, but the one or two times he unloaded, they got a stall warning...because that was when the airspeed finally went above 60 knots. Stall warnings are inhibited below 60 kts so you don't get nuisance warnings while taxiing or landing rollout with gusty winds.
Thinking that unloading was causing a stall, he pulled back....to avoid it.
I think they knew the stick was full-aft, but the one or two times he unloaded, they got a stall warning...because that was when the airspeed finally went above 60 knots. Stall warnings are inhibited below 60 kts so you don't get nuisance warnings while taxiing or landing rollout with gusty winds.
Thinking that unloading was causing a stall, he pulled back....to avoid it.
03-02-2014 | 12:44 PM
#32
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If both pilots are moving the stick at the same time as you described above, you would receive a "Dual Input" indication/call out.
03-02-2014 | 02:11 PM
#34
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The one instance that I would disagree with the stick vs yoke would be the stall accident into the Atlantic. It would have been absolutely obvious to all three pilots that they were working against each other. I'm sure the airbus has indicators showing that this is happening, but they were either missed or ignored. Seeing one guy pushing on a yoke while the other was pulling on a yoke would have given each other and the captain the realization that they were working at cross purposes. Whether a single accident caused by aircraft control confusion due to no yoke negates the advantages of a side stick is arguable.
After all, the UAL 744 that almost hit the mountains outside SFO had enough indications that the improper control input was being performed.
It's NOT about the how and the why of the AF accident. Just simply that obvious/visual/tactile feedback and visual cues wouldn't guaranty safety.
03-02-2014 | 11:34 PM
#35
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That's been BEAT TO DEATH. Seems as if MOST guys that fly Airbus disagree.
After all, the UAL 744 that almost hit the mountains outside SFO had enough indications that the improper control input was being performed.
It's NOT about the how and the why of the AF accident. Just simply that obvious/visual/tactile feedback and visual cues wouldn't guaranty safety.
After all, the UAL 744 that almost hit the mountains outside SFO had enough indications that the improper control input was being performed.
It's NOT about the how and the why of the AF accident. Just simply that obvious/visual/tactile feedback and visual cues wouldn't guaranty safety.
Last edited by APC225; 03-02-2014 at 11:48 PM.
03-03-2014 | 07:56 AM
#37
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But the AF discussion ALWAYS involves the side stick discussion and the theory that "if only the OTHER pilot could have seen what was going with the other pilot's stick, they would have been able to fly the plane yada yada yada........." Or, the folks that just simply don't understand how the Airbus FBW system works, thinking there were "dueling sticks", etc.
I was simply making the case that with the 747 (as an example), that was an option, and it was EXACTLY what you your point ends with.
03-03-2014 | 07:57 AM
#38
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From: Gets weekends off
And two guys sitting in the jumpseat and not one of them said "Engine failure" or told him to step on the rudder.
03-03-2014 | 08:01 AM
#39
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From: The GF of FUPM
I thought that when the stand down video was made, the guys were using the actual CVR transcript? I recall that one of the bunkies was yelling, "rudder". Of course, given the cacophony within the cockpit it may have gone unheard.
03-03-2014 | 08:06 AM
#40
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From: A320 Captain
Between the simultaneous GPWS and the stick shaker the video recreation was loud. If I remember, I think one bunkie was imploring him to "CLIMB"!!!
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