Unity and the PAC
 

Today's C33 Denver meeting was attended by <20 members, of which NONE were L-CAL. The Chairman's message was about unity and the ALPA PAC.

Alpa Pins...wear them. Our early openers for the next contract are about 18 months away. Time to start showing unity. If you are not happy with Alpa due to the SLI, contract 2012, or whatever..wear your pin upside down, but wear it. There are <100 guys that CAN"T wear the pin, don't be a slick tie. Show unity.

PAC...NAI's scheme to fly under an Irish certificate (flag of convenience) is a BIG deal. You can help fight this and the next threat to our careers with an Alpa PAC contribution. Sign up for the Century Club ($8.34/mo), Capitol Club ($20/month), President's Cirlce ($41.67/month), or splurge for the the Behncke Cirle ($83.34/month). It's easy, cheap, and effective. In Washington, money talks, BS walks. Just do it!

That is all.

+1. People who persist on disunity and conflict are an issue. Flew with one last week...and he had the ballz to complain that the culture sucks. Well, then, help us change it, jackball. Complained about everything, all the time. Could not have been around a more miserable human in my lifetime. Get over yourself and realize how incredible your life is.

Flew with two "listers" recently wearing the pins...
SMH.....

For those <100 guys who CAN'T wear the pin. Are they not allowed to wear it?

Yes. I was refering to the L-UAL scabs. They cannot and do not wear an ALPA pin because they know they will be called out on it. On the CAL side all was forgiven, the way I understand it, when they re-certified (I didn't say forgotten, just forgiven).

But this is not a scab thread, this is a unity thread. There is no reason to walk around with a slick tie. It shows disunitiy and it ticks people off who are supposed to be on your team.

"It shows disunitiy and it ticks people off who are supposed to be on your team."

....even if you don't really like or support everything the union is doing (like many of us).

Then wear it upside down to show your displeasure.

Lets see. I'm support an organization that on a regular basis has done everything they can to harm my career.

I won't even go into my pre SLI career (26 years in good standing) and the harm that was done there by bad policy decisions. Lets look post SLI.

1. In place recall. Sole effect, harm L-CAL pilots.
2. BAT. Sole effect, harm L-CAL pilots.
3. Open new 757 bases without allowing L-CAL pilots to bid them. Sole effect, harm L-CAL pilots.
4. Not allowing L-CAL pilots to bid all our vacation in our normal bidding cycle. Sole effect, harm L-CAL pilots.
......

Yup, you guys want unity. Good luck.

The vacation bidding is the easiest to address:

If by "our normal bidding cycle" you mean the schedule that was in the previous L-CAL contract, than sorry it doesn't exist and isn't the "normal bidding cycle" now.

L-CAL pilots had the same opportunity to bid for their vacation as L-UAL pilots because we are all United pilots under one vacation bidding system. I was able to bid all my vacation under the current bidding cycle.

The vacation bidding process was a complete cluster and mess from the beginning. As a result it was rushed and "fixed" and reworked as the bidding process went along. That is ALL the company's fault and everyone was affected by it. I would agree that the rushed process caused bidding errors and a bit of confusion though.

Unity is what people make of it. I am looking forward. I have welcomed all pilots onto the flight. I have gone out of my way to help L-UAL pilots when they have asked me questions. I will not be part of pilots suing pilots either because an outcome wasn't something someone liked. I will not be a miserable person going forward and take it out on my fellow pilots. Unity takes work and effort. We have no one to blame but ourselves if we don't make the choice to move forward as one pilot group to make this airline succeed. Right now management is doing plenty on its own to mess things up; they certainly don't need our help in doing the same.

"No L-cal pilots in attendance" comment is total bs jsled. Enough with that garbage. Who cares? How many LCAL pilots are DEN based anyway? Get over the LCAL LUAL stuff, right now you are as much the problem as the people you are complaining about. Unity thread, yeah right.

Now, what would the penalty be if they dared wear the ALPA pin? What does "called out" mean? Does it mean you guys give them a dirty look they won't soon forget?

Also, without a doubt, unity left the building a while ago. LCAL guys come on here, find out what you don't like, and do it. You think you are shaming or intimidating people but you are achieving the opposite effect. There is a HUGE unity problem here. Most guys who aren't wearing their pin are very young. I really don't see a solution. Do you?

[QUOTE=sovt;1620041]Lets see. I'm support an organization that on a regular basis has done everything they can to harm my career.

I won't even go into my pre SLI career (26 years in good standing) and the harm that was done there by bad policy decisions. Lets look post SLI.

The company recalled you in place. You don't work for ALPA

BAT is an acceptable solution to a complicated problem.
1. The 756 and 76T will be one fleet after modifications
2. 90% of the 76T fleet is going away
3. BAT allows pilots of existing bases to bid over to the 756/76T and exercise their seniority much like they would be able to in PBS if the fleets were combined. Not perfect, but pretty good.

NO new 757/767 bases are being created without a vacancy bid. The BAT bids are in bases with existing 76T and/or 756 flying.

see EWRfly's post above.
......

I hope you reconsider. We will need to be unified when we start negotiations.

Twice furloughed legacy United pilot and 25 year ALPA member at 4 different airlines. I do wear my ALPA pin, but despise the organization. My ALPA brother and sisters voted to prevent me from partaking in the bond distribution, they refused to lower the cap on flying to reduce the number of furloughs, countless pilots pickup time while pilots were on furlough, LOA 25 paragraph 4..... The list goes on and on.

In 17 years, I have seen one scab wearing the pin. He was on an American Airlines DC-10 jumpseat. He feared that the AA Captain would throw his arse off the jet without it. When we got to Chicago, he took it off before he was off the jetbridge. It goes well beyond dirty looks. Hard to explain. It goes back to how they were treated in the years after the strike, but trust me, they don't wear the pin.

It is not my intention to shame or intimidate anyone (other than line crossing scabs). The fact is, like it or not, we are on the same team. We are represented by ALPA, and we should all be unified. The road ahead demands it.

Sled

I wear it. For me, it's about unity with fellow, non-scab, pilots and not endorsing a union

^^^ Ding ding ding, winner!

If you saw this guy with a pin on did you call him out on it? Did you let the aa pilot know?

No sir, but I should have. I was a half winger commuting to work to fly with said scab. He was an old broken down ex-Braniff weasel with less than a year to go. In hindsight, I should have exposed his sorry arse to the AA Captain, but I didn't. :(

+1000
Without a doubt - spot on.

NP, didn't know you were a half winger at the time. Funny thing about some of the AA guys is that I actually have some friends there that will call me at home with a name if they have any doubt.

Hey EWR,
Quick question. Is your senority in the top third, middle third, or bottom third. You see, I have noticed that pin wear-age and unity corresponds directly with what "third" you are in.

Quick question on pin check! I'm around 35% do I wear mine? :rolleyes:

I joined online for $50 a month after reading a convincing piece by a rep but haven't seen any payroll deductions.

Does anyone know how long it takes to kick in? I joined 2 months ago.

Not sure I see the relevance to be honest, but I am in the bottom third and I wear my ALPA pin.

To be honest, since SLI I have seen all ages, all ranks, all seniority from both legacy airlines NOT wearing their ALPA pins. I have seen more L-CAL pilots not wearing their pin now then before the SLI. Don't get it and to me that is part of staying stuck in the past instead of moving on.

[QUOTE=jsled;1620100]Your response above may make you feel better but the truth of the matter is that the BAT, recall in place.... We're designed and approved by ALPA to get L-UAL pilots to a better place that otherwise would have taken years to get to. Obviously at the expense of L-CAL pilots.

L-UAL ALPA has a long history of screwing other pilot groups to better themselves. These events just continue this long and dispicable history.

[QUOTE=sovt;1621629]I guess you haven't been paying attention over the past 3 years. Fact of the matter is we are not going to willingly give you something you are not entitled to. The company gave you guys a 3 year head start on the Captain grab and you guys continue to complain that you didn't get to steal enough. Bet you signed-on to UAL seniority do over lawsuit - you are not going to win. You can regurgitate what you read on the internet but facts bear out that UAL ALPA has done far more for the pilot profession and that includes CAL and the CAL era prior to Lorenzo. If you think you got screwed, you have to ask yourself if you were really entitled.

The online thing is pretty new. Maybe it didn't take. I'd call National and check.

[QUOTE=hopeSales;1621660]In my 27+ years of airline flying including, three major airlines, two bankruptcy filings, three mergers, three difficult contract negotiations and three furloughs I have never seen or heard of the kind of stuff that has gone on here.

What you guys have conviently forgotten is UAL was dead in the water without CAL. I know you don't wish to hear it but facts are facts. Your company had not invested in their product for over a decade. Aircraft that were marginally maintained much less upgraded.

You guys continually harp about JP being the bad guy. Well at least he fought for the group he was charged to represent. Now that we have one MEC I'm sure I can count on them representing one group; the former L-UAL group

In closing, I am not part of any suit. For a number of reasons it is destined to fail. As to your premiss that the UAL ALPA has done wonders for the pilot profession, well, you are delusional. Remember the summer of 2000. Great job. You guys got the general public, the legal profession and congress so ****ed off that the thought of any work action by any group gets shut down in court. Great job guys.

[QUOTE=sovt;1621751]You obviously didn't read the ISL award...I know it's going to be tough since you most likely believe your own lemming BS but pretty much all of your ranting was smacked down in a historical fashion. Get a life and Move on.

As a follow up....this is the name and contact provided on the online PAC signup...Zack Mooneyham at 202-797-4034 or at [email protected].

[QUOTE=sovt;1621751]Yet we didn't get hit with a $45 million fine like APA did for their sickout which happened before C2000. If what UAL ALPA did was so off base then, where were the legal eagles that you claim we enraged? All I did that summer (and everyone else) was fly my published schedule. No picking up open time, coming in on a day off, etc. That is the primary factor that the operation could not handle. Had you been around then, I'll bet you would have done the same thing coming off the ESOP and having the USAir merger just announced.

"In my 27+ years of airline flying including, three major airlines, two bankruptcy filings, three mergers, three difficult contract negotiations and three furloughs I have never seen or heard of the kind of stuff that has gone on here."

I won't bother responding to the BS but I will respond to the first paragraph because that's the root of your problem. In the 27+ years in the airline business you seem to have made some pretty bad decisions. When you ended up at CAL your career looked as if it was finally coming around. When Jeff, JP and Tilton showed up they brought in UAL and you felt your life taking another nose dive. Especially after JP filled your head with lies. If JP had been honest and played by the rules, all United pilots and that includes you CAL types would be better off in many ways.
You can keep whining, not wearing your ALPA pin and blaming ALPA for all your bad mistakes if you want, but time is moving on and if you do have 29+ years in the business you probably have don't have a lot of that left. I'd suggest you take the time left and get onboard and enjoy some of the your remaining time at UNITED.

"sovt" is deliberately playing with the quote system - maybe a moderator can fix this.

[QUOTE=sovt;1621629]WOW. Where to start. The BAT process was a cost saving process designed by UCH to minimize pilot cost. Weigand confirmed that.

I can assure you that it wasn't designed by ALPA to stick it to the CAL pilots. In many cases, it hurt UAL pilots. I understand that you're ****ed off about your spot on the list. Thank JP for that. Your MC so wildly deformed expectations that you feel this way is unfortunate, but absolutely predicted by many. Either live it or $%^#&%^ move on. I'm so tired of this. We're being run by a bunch of hacks yet we're worrying about groping for the scraps left over after they've destroyed the company. This is not going well. No reason to point fingers, but go ahead.

Scott

Not that I don't agree with you 100%...

But DAL pilots did the same thing in the mid-2000s and the judge said they were performing an illegal job action by not picking up open-time. He made it clear to DALALPA they needed to inform their pilots to stop NOT picking up open-time. WHAT? Open-time pick up is a voluntary option. How can a pilot be doing an illegal job action if he flies his legally published full schedule each month? If I want to pick up a trip this month but then decide there are no trips in open-time I like until, I don't know, NEXT YEAR how is that a job action? Management really did a good job convincing the judge of that.

You are correct. The new legal buzz revolved around "status quo." That is what is now used against us. Apparently, Sovt believes that UAL ALPA was the first pilot group in the history of the airline industry to ever "violate" the status quo. And it took all the way until the year 2000 for that to occur. Uh-huh.

I guess the company would be complicit in that job action today since they build schedules in which picking up open time is pretty much impossible.

I quit my PAC contribution when ALPA decided to keep 5% of my retro pay/signing bonus. ALPA is holding my money, interest free, I'm not giving them anymore. Give me my money.....

After our fellow pilots have finished all of their legal maneuvers, perhaps they could cough up interest to the rest of us.

ALPA is not holding your money. United Airlines is holding your money on the request of ALPA. WHY? Because the leadership of ALPA knew there would be greedy rat bastard pilots that would file lawsuits. As an organization, ALPA has to protect itself from it's membership. If one of these lawsuits is awarded, are you gonna cut a check for your share? NOPE. Thus the hold back. So you're gonna give up on defending your career because of the greedy rat bastard litigious pilots? That's not very smart, IMO.

Sled