Our TA has a lot of concessions. (Profit sharing, scope, sick leave usage, seat locks, etc.)


Did you guys/gals have a lot of concessions in your new contract, too? If so, what were they?

Thanks.

 

Oh NO! Ours was a great win! Industry leading! Just ask The MEC chairman.

 

Our contract had concessions in it. But, remember, it was a merger contract. UA vs. CO vs. MGT vs. NMB. Yours is not this, not even close!

The biggest concession, in my view, was scope. From 70 to 76 seaters. Which we were forced to take by the NMB because Delta took that concession. A lot of the other things I see as concessions had to do with merging. This limited our leverage severely. If you guys can't get an awesome contract now, no one will.

 

Having read the Delta TA highlights, I see no reason to vote no. New hire seat locks? 50/50 block hours ratio on code shares (current UAL contract), shrinking DCI overall but adding 25-70/76 seaters for 50 mainline 90/95 seaters? No deal killers there. I don't really understand the SL changes from reading the TA changes (but it says it won't affect 2/3 of the pilot group) and the profit sharing change is questionable....but the pay rates and the fact that it's early? Slam dunk in my opinion. The good times won't last forever. I'd lock it in. Good luck!

Sled

 

I think our SL program is better than yours.

OUR Profit Sharing went down and is lower than yours. We have the same idea as yours with 10% for a portion and then 20%, but we agreed to have the higher portion based on a profit Margin number rather than a specific dollar amount, so as total revenue went up so did the amount of profit we had to achieve to get the higher payout. I think with our formula your guys profit sharing payout would have been about 75% of what it was for 2014. So, our current program would be ever so slightly above what your TA program is proposing.

From what I have seen, the give in the area of Scope is the much bigger deal. While that would take you down to what we have, it looks like a major give to me. To give you an idea of how bad it can be, we currently have a Lufthansa A380 flying LAX-FRA, a 747-800 flying LAX-FRA, and an A340 flying LAX-MUC and we don't have any metal on either of those routes!!!!

So, while we have swallowed that pill already to get past the merger mess that we were in, I would not recommend it. I was really hoping to get our scope up to your level in the next contract because this area translates into the Widebody Jobs!

Ironically, we have a major campaign going on to stop the MiddleEast carriers from "stealing" our work, but I guess it is ok to give our jobs away if the company is going to get the revenue.

I realize the payrates are quite nice with your TA and that makes it very tempting, but unless you are really senior and don't care about the Widebody jobs, you definitely should get as much info on that Joint Venture/Scope give to make sure what your total benefit/cost is when you consider the potential loss of Jobs up the food chain and the associated lack of movement. Higher pay but a lack of movement may end up resulting in similar or worse W2 than lower pay but good movement.

 

Profit sharing? Scope? Thats a little advanced for us. (2 years Jeff?)

But hey, while you are here. Do you guys fold checklists?

 

Yes. Yes we do.

 

You're dang right. Those checklists are folded, and it might cost me a penny or 2 in profit sharing.

If the preflight checklist is longer than one quarter of a page, it's not a fleet I need to be on.

 

I respectfully disagree! There is NO reason for ANY give regarding scope!!! Scope is our jobs! It doesn't matter what your hourly rate is, if you don't have a job. I don't think that DAL should cave on anything at a time of HUGE profitability. They certainly shouldn't be coming down to our level. They should be increasing the scope restrictions. There is a reason why management agreed to the pay raises, because they already have a plan. Maybe the conversation should be, "since we're taking a haircut on profit sharing, we want stricter scope language"?

As for the regional scope, they are just helping out their regional partners. Lowering the amount of regional airplanes by such a modest amount is going to happen anyway because their regional partners are having difficulty filling classes. I would like to see deeper cuts in regional airplanes and no more 76 seat airplanes.

They're also losing valuable work rules. Removing trips from the trip pool because IOE. So that the Company doesn't have to buy off pilots to use their trip for OE. Only modest increases in training pay and vacation pay.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is still a lot work that can be done to benefit their pilots and our industry. I hope that they vote it down and go back into Section 6. It's not like they have a bad CBA, and I believe that this TA could potentially be worse than the deal that they currently have. Just my $0.02!

 

Airlines are feast or famine. Right now a massive feast is going on. Billions in profits, stock buy backs, etc etc. pilots took big cuts and had a lot of stagnation over the last 15 years. Delta pilots should go after a lot more, they deserve it.

And when we open up, wouldn't you rather have our negotiators going in and saying, hey delta pilots have less RJs, and get paid 30% more than us, better PS, better sick leave, instead of just marginally better than what we have now. It would make our gains that much better.