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-   -   The Current Negotiating Environment (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/90886-current-negotiating-environment.html)

busdriver12 10-03-2015 07:01 AM


Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 1981138)
What I want is a deal that is a forward move, not a lateral move when most of the airlines are reporting record profits. Pay scales are very much a secondary consideration for me. Work rules, job security, and retirement are primary concerns for me. I look at a contract in its totality. I completely understand that this is a negotiation and we don't just get to demand what we want. Everything has a cost to it (for both parties).

Second, the FedEx deal...
The only thing that I can see that is really not acceptable is their retirement proposal. No changes to the "A" fund which means that because of adjustments for inflation means that what they get upon their retirement will not have that much buying power (especially for pilots getting hired now and retiring in 20-30 years). A low (I think about 9%) B fund. Industry standard is 16%.

I agree with what you say about negotiation, and I think those at FedEx who were highly disappointed, were expecting gains in every section, and no "efficiencies" or givebacks whatsoever. Because the company is doing so well, they expected an exceptional contract. However, FedEx has always been a slow and steady move forward, we have never ended up with a contract that excited us, nor horrified us (in my opinion).

I believe many people consider it a win that we were able to keep the A fund for new hires, and didn't get ours frozen, like what they imposed upon the rest of the company. Others disagree, and think status quo shouldn't be considered a gain, however I think there was no budging on the A fund. They are trying to shed those responsibilities. Regardless, it's still a 130K/year pension, which isn't chump change, even in 20-30 years. But they should have moved the ball forward further than 9% with the B plan.

Good luck to you guys! I hope your negotiations are more successful than everyone elses have been.

oldmako 10-03-2015 07:02 AM

From what I hear, read, and see on the line, we're going to get rolled.

APC225 10-03-2015 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 1984543)
From what I hear, read, and see on the line, we're going to get rolled.

By Rick? .........

APC225 10-03-2015 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by APC225 (Post 1984548)
By Rick?

Naw. Rick told me,"We know the game and we're gonna play it. We know the rules, we both know what's been going on and a full commitment's what I'm thinking of." Pretty sure he was talking about our NC and Rick would never let us down.

Scrappy 10-03-2015 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1984508)
Wow. Surely you can't be serious. Best days of my career were during the Clinton admin. Obama's tenure has been a boon for this industry...not to mention your B-fund. Presidents do lots of things besides imposing PEBs. (which he did not do for Spirit, btw). By appointing Babbitt to FAA, and Pistole to TSA, we now have FAR 117 and Known Crewmember. Obama's legacy.
Look at the carnage that occurred in this industry under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. Will we ever learn? :confused:

Sled the reluctant Democrat

I sure hope we will. Lots of fish to fry, issues to consider when electing a leader of our nation. Our industry is one of course, but just one piece of the pie.

Scrappy the poignant Republican.

AllenAllert 10-03-2015 08:55 AM

Bush Jr. destabilised the whole MidEast so those pesky ME airlines don't invade out markets. Unfortunately, he caused the killing off of half of our market. Now you want more of the same. Another bowl please.

jsled 10-03-2015 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by Scrappy (Post 1984615)
I sure hope we will. Lots of fish to fry, issues to consider when electing a leader of our nation. Our industry is one of course, but just one piece of the pie.

Scrappy the poignant Republican.

I can certainly respect the "vote for my country not my industry" argument. I just cannot accept the "doesn't really matter to my industry" argument. That argument is either clueless or in denial. The evidence in overwhelming. Now I will shut up before T38 Phlyer comes and pulls my ticket!! :D

Sled

baseball 10-03-2015 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by jsled (Post 1984508)
Wow. Surely you can't be serious. Best days of my career were during the Clinton admin. Obama's tenure has been a boon for this industry...not to mention your B-fund. Presidents do lots of things besides imposing PEBs. (which he did not do for Spirit, btw). By appointing Babbitt to FAA, and Pistole to TSA, we now have FAR 117 and Known Crewmember. Obama's legacy.
Look at the carnage that occurred in this industry under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. Will we ever learn? :confused:

Sled the reluctant Democrat

I will definitely concede some of those points. However, the original idea was about the global economy and how it translates to the national economy. I see the economy contracting despite some other positive points that I pointed out. You also pointed out some good points.

From both a national security stand point and an economic stand point overall I would say we are worse off. But, Obama I would say this regarding B fund, and Known crew member...... ALPA bought and paid for KCM and my negotiators paid for the B fund with negotiating capital. FAR 117 has been in the works since 2005, of which I was an original working group member appointed by ALPA. It took a long time to pull that off. My best year under Clinton was $24K, and my guard unit down-sized from 24 to 15 PAA, so I wasn't all that crazy about Mr. Arkansas.

It does seem that the economy grows stronger under Republican leadership though. Mostly due to regulations and tax policy.

UALinIAH 10-03-2015 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by baseball (Post 1984789)
I will definitely concede some of those points. However, the original idea was about the global economy and how it translates to the national economy. I see the economy contracting despite some other positive points that I pointed out. You also pointed out some good points.

From both a national security stand point and an economic stand point overall I would say we are worse off. But, Obama I would say this regarding B fund, and Known crew member...... ALPA bought and paid for KCM and my negotiators paid for the B fund with negotiating capital. FAR 117 has been in the works since 2005, of which I was an original working group member appointed by ALPA. It took a long time to pull that off. My best year under Clinton was $24K, and my guard unit down-sized from 24 to 15 PAA, so I wasn't all that crazy about Mr. Arkansas.

It does seem that the economy grows stronger under Republican leadership though. Mostly due to regulations and tax policy.

What part of the economy are you talking here? Look at the umemployment rates under Republican presidents in the last 25-30 years and compare that to under Democrats. Yes the military gets cutbacks but I wouldn't say we're less safe. How much did Bush II cost this country in dollars and lives going into Iraq when they had nothing to do with 9/11? Under who's watch was OBL killed? Just saying I don't believe the Fox news scare mantra of Dems being weak on national security.

FAAFlyer 10-03-2015 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by UALinIAH (Post 1984809)
What part of the economy are you talking here? Look at the umemployment rates under Republican presidents in the last 25-30 years and compare that to under Democrats. Yes the military gets cutbacks but I wouldn't say we're less safe. How much did Bush II cost this country in dollars and lives going into Iraq when they had nothing to do with 9/11? Under who's watch was OBL killed? Just saying I don't believe the Fox news scare mantra of Dems being weak on national security.

+100

I used to be a registered Republican.

"Used" to.


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