somebody should post on here what goes on at these so-called crew room visits by management I keep hearing about. Is this management negotiating directly with the pilots or what? My rep speaks for me. No need to come to the crew room and politic while I am taking a nap in the corner. Make one of those Tom Stivala style DVD's or something and mail it to me.

 

 

Exactly. And who is losing this war? Their pilots, still getting paid 2012 wages.
Section 6 negotiations provide ZERO leverage for pilots the day the amendable date passes. All the leverage is on managements side, and we work for lower pay rates.

I can't understand how any pilot who has been in the industry more than 10 years could think that section 6 negotiations provide leverage for us. The RLA guarantees the companies hold all the cards.

Show me a 18-20% pay raise, and I would vote yes in a heartbeat. The only deal breaker would be scope.

 

Forgive my newbness, but isn't scope just the company wanting to add more airplanes? And why would we not want them to? As far as the section 6 goes, Delta has a pay parity in their contract that adjusts their pay to ours and AA twice a year, if I read it correctly. Why would we not put something like that in ours instead of the 5 percent? Thanks for educating us newbs.
Cheers,
Fetch

 

Young padawan has much to learn. Use the force, read the contract on scope.

Scope in short prevents the company from outsourcing our flying to another company. This takes many forms. Limits on international code shares, limits on express size, legs, frequency percentage of mainline block hours.

In short scope protects mainline jobs. If an express company is contracted to fly SFO-SEA on an RJ, we lose pilot jobs, flight attendant jobs, mechanic jobs...you get the idea. We are now in an era where Harvard business grads control business, and local labor is considered evil. Outsource it all! What they don't understand is the value of a happy labor force vs. low cost outsourced fee for departure ventures that don't necessarily have the resources, or are managed just on the edge of bankruptcy that do not have the reliability of mainline. That ****es off customers, lose business, when they really don't like flying on 50 seat small RJ's in the first place.

Scope is only as strong as the language in the contract. Management is constantly trying to come up with loop holes. Again, outsource labor is cheaper, but not really. Ask Jeff about the island gate agents and ramp.

Scope is monumentally important. Please do some research and read the contract. We currently have scope choke, which means that the company is retiring 50 seat RJ's as fast as they can, and they can't add any more large RJ's due to our contract. This means they have to buy planes for mainline, maybe a new small narrow-body. Hence the used A3219's, and used Guppies we are buying. This means jobs. This means new hires, this means, fast progression, this means QOL.

Scope is important. Yes the company would add more planes, but not on our seniority list. Scope means a lot more than I've listed, just scratched the surface.

 

+1^^^ I would argue that Scope is the most important section of any CBA.

 

Very well articulated!

 

AH........there's the carot and stick. Your carrot will be a 5 percent pay raise in exchange for scope.

Same thing Dave Zullo did in Cleveland at a CAL MEC meeting. He wanted the entire pilot group to give away scope in the form of joint ventures in exchange for a 2 percent pay raise.

Here's the kicker. He demanded the pilots NOT vote on it.


Now beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you are well behind in where you want to be you may be willing to hold out because of the simple fact that your dignity won't allow you to stomach the embarassment of a small pay raise when you know you deserve a larger one.

Then, there's the intrinsic time value of money and simply put, a dollar earned today is better than a dollar earned 3 years from now.


Then, there's the trust factor. How much do you trust management.

Then, there's the competency factor. How competent do you believe your negotiators are.


It's a four legged stool:

Perceived self worth
Time value of money
company trust
union competency


Everyone will have a different view and or value on those 4 factors above. That's why we vote. Thats why we vote for reps too.

 

Preach, Brudda.

Hog

 

[URL="http://frequentlyflying.boardingarea.com/vintage-airline-seat-map-continental-airlines-dc-9-10-1987/"]

Vintage Airline Seat Map: Continental Airlines DC-9-10 (1987): Continental’s version appearing below seated a mere 83 passengers across two classes of service.