Airline Pilot Central Forums - Contract extension AIP bullet points

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 2014738)

If there are no improvements to reserve and the rest of the rumors are true, then I am a staunch NO vote. As one of the five main pillars of this negotiation, I believe that it should have been addressed in some way. It appears that it wasn't though. Unacceptable!!! It's great that our furloughees are going to be made whole, but that is a small part of this pilot group. So as a junior pilot, the only thing that we get out of this deal is pay rates and to be worked harder because of FMRS concessions (presumably), and reduced career progression.

And a 100 seat order..... Which will mean MANY new pilots junior to you. How do you get reduced career progressions? With the FRMS changes we can actually fly SFO-TLV and AUK

Quote:

Originally Posted by svergin (Post 2014763)

Lots of pilots that live in base would sit happily on reserve can't hold the position because some pilot who commutes upbid as fast as possible for the $$ and is now complaining about how terrible reserve is.

So we vote this down. Then what if it takes 3 years to get a contract and we still don't fix reserve, but we just get the same pay raises that we could get now but we get them in 3 years? Voting no would be a frustration vote and nothing else. There are no concessions in this deal apparently. Just improvements. I think a lot of us would like the guaranteed something now vs the unknown maybe something maybe not in 3 more years. Either way the next deal could take 5 years ALA Southwest whether we take this or not. I'd rather be sitting here in 5 years with pay raises than sitting around with the same deal we have now wondering why we didn't take the deal and I voted NO on the current contract.

Excellent post

[QUOTE=SteelerNation;2014765]

Quote:

Originally Posted by svergin (Post 2014752)

Reserve is a self-inflicted scenario for every pilot except new hires.

Tell that to people in IAH or SFO that were line holders, or the countless others across our industry that gets downgraded or displaced. You must have lived a charmed life to have such an attitude towards others...

Every one of the SFO pilots and the vast majority of the IAH pilots have the option to bid something else and not sit reserve if they so choose.. That option hasn't always been the case, but right now, there are bids a plenty to every domicile.... except maybe DEN. And SEA =)

One other thought. DAL and SWA have been negotiating with leverage out the bottom for YEARS and neither have come anywhere CLOSE to this deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 2014907)

One other thought. DAL and SWA have been negotiating with leverage out the bottom for YEARS and neither have come anywhere CLOSE to this deal.

Close to what deal? Current book plus a pay raise and furloughs made whole?

Still waiting to hear the official word but I'd be interested to know if the reserve changes were lengthy/wordy enough it wasn't easily spread by word of mouth? That's my hope anyways. I can't see why they couldn't fix some of the long list of items that would improve QOL for reserves.

Also, anybody have some insider knowledge on the NSNB? Seems like things have been leaked to the media enticing us to vote yes but nothing of substance. Maybe they are withholding solid details until the MEC decides whether they will send this out or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 2014854)

From Webster -

Definition of INCENTIVIZE
transitive verb
: to provide with an incentive <would incentivize employees with stock options>

The company WANTS something from us. The current agreement prevents them from using the 787 on routes they would like. If this agreement (as is purported) is turned down, the company will still want, and need that relief. They bought those planes to be operated on specific, long haul routes and they are currently prevented from doing so. This is leverage, plain and simple. Those of you who think that their need will not encourage them to return to the table surprise me.

Once upon a time there were a whole bunch of brand new 747-400's parked in the desert because of restrictive contractual language. They didn't sit there too long. What is so different this time? I guess that was too long ago for most to remember.

Prevents? That's a strong word G'father. Our contract allows full available FAR 117 duty for double augmentation with Class 1 rest facilities. We also have LOA 22 which defines our (ALPA) rights for FRMS applications. We have a few FRMS routes already. My guess, as I have said, is that they tweaked LOA 22 to make it easier to get approval on said routes. That was the leverage. The NC obtained compensation with this leverage. If the rumors are true, we will have industry leading pay rates. Period. Not DAL +1...more like DAL + 12%. And a Me Too clause as insurance. That and LOA 25 gets resolved. You and I both know if this is true, it is a slam dunk. Easy pass. As it should be, IMO.

Sled

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 2014912)

Close to what deal? Current book plus a pay raise and furloughs made whole?

Yes......... Did you see their TA's? FULL of consessions in scope, profit sharing, etc. and WAYYY smaller pay increases than our AIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by APC225 (Post 2014758)

You miss the entire point of decent reserve rules. Even if it's "self-inflicted" for all but new hires, by dumping crappy QOL of new hires you welcome them into your pilot group with a great big slap in the face. When it comes time for unity in contract vote or any other union effort they return the favor. Since the senior pilots hosed them, they see no reason to stand with them. And, since everyone is a new hire at some point, you eventually create a group of pilots that despise anyone senior to them and, as in any abusive relationship, now feel it's ok to dump on anyone junior to them.

Also, next time there's a 10% furlough of the pilot group, you'll see non-"self-inflicted" commuters and non-"self-inflicted" reserves all over the place, and they won't be new hires. Times are good now, but they will get ugly again. It's cyclical. They always do.

I agree with Svergin's post... If you don't like reserve WB rules then bid to NB and hold a line... Can't have it both ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firsttimeflyer (Post 2014914)

There are no changes to the reserve system. Both sides wanted their preferred reserve items, but there was not enough time. No scope changes and no NSNB or other aircraft orders. All this is confirmed.