We do loose some money now if we vote it down. And it's not a bad little bump in pay I admit. But if voted down we would still have the leverage and bargaining power with the 117 long hull issue to use in full section 6. I understand the money now would be nice for the pilot group. But for only 13% more now and 2% more in two years I feel like we should have got some more gains in other areas. Most likely this will get voted in if it goes out to the pilots. And I admittedly could really use the extra money, but I have 32 more years at this company God willing and I want that time to be as easy on myself and my family as possible. These constant rolled days off are making it impossible to have a life. It just happened again last week. If the company and scheduling would act honorably it would be one thing, but when they staff so thin that everything can just barely be covered by destroying the reserves with no penelty there is something wrong. And believe me there is something wrong.

 

Careful there big fella! You're sure to be labelled a whiner and a "woe-is-me-victim! IOW, thanks for your reasoned input. It sounds as though its borne from your stellar experience while toiling on the toilet end of your BES.

Something else to consider, while I'd love to upgrade, the abysmal QOL for reserve pukes prevents me from doing so. That represents one hell of a lot of money lost, far more than 13%. I have spoken to scores of others who feel the same way.

 

If you're planning to be on reserve for the next 32 years, then someone needs to explain Vacancy Bidding 101 to you. Based on your tacitly implied age of 33, I surmise you're fairly new on property and probably won't be on reserve much longer. Most of the half wingers I fly with are holding a line after 6 months. With your next equipment bid, your reserve status should be by your choice. That said, if you're not planning on standing reserve for the majority of the next 32 years, do you want to earn less as a line holder at the expense of better reserve rules for the majority of your career or are you only thinking about QOL for the next 12 months?

 

I'm sorry, but I think it's hilarious that a person who apparently doesn't know the difference between "to" and "too", is calling other people stupid.

 

Wrong, those new long routes will just go to code share partners if we turn it down. That isn't scare tactic, it's just a fact. It's partially what happened to BKK and it'll happen here too. They have other options to fly these routes.

 

I have been here about a year and with the combining of the 756 76t fleets a line is nowhere in sight. I do want reserve improvements, but I also want improvements for everyone. I would like to see 5 hours a day for vacation and training. I would like to see vacation days not be counted towards min days off for the month. I would like to not see a flight cancelation drop all the monthly overs and keep from being able to pick up extra flying without working for free. Common sense things like that. Things even the regionals had.

 

Thats NOT a fact its a scare tactic!! Nothing in our current contract prevents the company from flying anywhere in the world no matter how far. Our current contract doesn't even cost them any money to do the flying.

They just don't want ALPA involved with FRMS. If you vote out of fear I feel sorry for you

Like Pro2nd said I have 30 years left at this place I need QOL over the long term not money tomorrow. I'll make more money taking a CA bid and sitting on reserve than I ever will with this 13% pay raise.

FIX my reserve rules so I can make some real money as a CA.

 

^^^^good post its not just about reserve its about EVERYTHING! Still trying to figure out why line holders get paid for a day off and RSV don't......

 

Agree. All the arguments I hear is that the company will immediately want to do a full Section 6 if turned down. Well what if this ends up like C2002 that ended in 2008 and it takes until late 2012 for us to get a new agreement? That means we get something maybe in 2010 or 2011 and we don't get extra long-haul flying we would have gotten. What if the company just says "OK we will add codeshares since our pilots don't want to do that ultra-long haul flying." Honestly I don't do that flying, but when I look at the latest 787 CA vacancy and see mostly double digit seniority number bidding it, I would think that those guys are pretty happy flying those long flights. I imagine that's why they are bidding it.

Another point: If this FRMS thing is so valuable to us as a pilot group, then why wasn't it presented that way during the last TA roadshows? I never heard anyone say "This FRMS is worth hundreds of millions a year and its in our favor". Only now its magically all this leverage? What if its not? What if this is a win-win and we say no. Last contract we were told payrates, work rules, and SCOPE. Those were the wins.

I haven't decided either way, but I can tell you that I'm not super convinced that the company would immediately jump back into negotiations if we vote this down. The Delta pilots said the same thing. And it didn't happen. We could end up not getting contract until after the flight attendants.

Negotiations are give and take. We all want only takes and no gives. No question there. But these payrates are way more than I ever thought I'd see and some of the people I've talked to have said they are pretty eye opening. Yes, we want better work rules, but I'm working under work rules mostly far better than my previous contract. This is all just my perspective and I'm just sharing that before you flame me.

 

All reasonable requests.

I too would like to see other improvements. There was a lot of talk here before the details were leaked about how the pay raise would have to be "eye watering" to accept a contract extension. 13% for me is not eye watering, not even close.

As a few others have stated at this point, and my opinion, I would rather see the entire contract opened and worked on rather than the rumored short term gains outlined in the TA. Yes, reserve is one of those areas. 5 hrs/day is another. Many areas need work and many defined areas that need work have already been stated numerous times. So, asking to state them yet again, and none coming forth, is not a valid argument to demonstrate 13% now is the best we can do.

Of course I will wait for the real details to emerge, if it passes the MEC, to decide. But right now, I would rather take my chance on the entire contract.

And to Probe, yes you are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion does not invalidate other peoples. Neither does it by saying the same thing over and over. I've been here a long time, and I've found taking the money now is somewhat short sighted.